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  #1  
Old 27 May 2007, 03:34 AM
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Icon81 Clorox + Pine Sol = death

Comment: Just wondering if it is true that mixing Clorox and Pine Sol can
kill you? If so, can you die from mixing just the fumes (for example,
cleaning the walls with clorox and the floors with pine sol)?

I heard this was true a long time ago and have always been careful not to
mix these two different types of products in my own home...

The crew that cleans the office where I work continually mixes these
products despite my protests... Each time they do, I begin to feel
light-headed. I am now beginning to worry for the safety of myself and my
co-workers...
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  #2  
Old 27 May 2007, 02:31 PM
Doug4.7
 
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Clorox and an ammonia based cleaner will produce some nasty gas...

Is Pine Sol ammonia based?
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  #3  
Old 27 May 2007, 03:14 PM
Singing in the Drizzle Singing in the Drizzle is offline
 
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If mixed right bleach and ammonia will get you chlorine Gas. Also mixing base (bleach) and an acid (ammonia) will cancel each others cleaning ability and get you some than that is worse to clean with.
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  #4  
Old 27 May 2007, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singing in the Drizzle View Post
If mixed right bleach and ammonia will get you chlorine Gas. Also mixing base (bleach) and an acid (ammonia) will cancel each others cleaning ability and get you some than that is worse to clean with.
Sorry you got the acid/base mixed up. Ammonia is the base dissolving in water to give the ion NH4+.

Bleach is slightly acidic I believe.
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  #5  
Old 27 May 2007, 05:18 PM
Alchemy Alchemy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queen of the caramels View Post
Bleach is slightly acidic I believe.
Both chlorine bleach and ammonium cleaner are both moderately basic with pH around 10-ish.

A substitution between hypochlorite (bleach) and ammonium takes place at this pH:

ClO- + NH4+ --> NH2Cl + H2O

The NH2Cl is chloramine which is a toxic gas.

And there's no ammonia in Pine Sol.

ETA: Chloramine is bad stuff but isn't nearly as toxic as chlorine gas.

Last edited by Alchemy; 27 May 2007 at 05:24 PM.
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  #6  
Old 27 May 2007, 06:07 PM
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[hijack] A few years ago, we had a rabbit. Ari was litter-box trained, but a bout of heatstroke one summer led to what I think was some brain damage; he had a slight personality change, and no longer used the litter box. Instead, he'd pee on the floor within a one-foot radius of his box. We had him in the basement on the concrete floor, so I just scattered litter around the box and then would clean the floor every week or so.

Anyway, while I was pregnant with my eldest, I went down and was on one of those cleaning kicks only a pregnant woman can have, and poured a full gallon of bleach on the floor around his box. Within seconds I was extremely dizzy, and then I realized: Rabbit urine is mostly ammonia.

It took a while for the headache to go away, but I most definitely lived to tell about it. When I called the OB, the first question they asked me was, "How is the rabbit?" He was fine, so they told me I would be. Both of us got a large does of fumes, and both of us lived to tell about it. I have no doubts that the gas was toxic, and if we'd stayed down there or were in a small, contained area, it might have been a different story, but I seriously doubt that something that has just a small amount of ammonia (assuming pine sol does, which we've already established it doesn't) would kill you when mixed with bleach.
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  #7  
Old 27 May 2007, 07:00 PM
Singing in the Drizzle Singing in the Drizzle is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queen of the caramels View Post
Sorry you got the acid/base mixed up. Ammonia is the base dissolving in water to give the ion NH4+.

Bleach is slightly acidic I believe.
Your right, I should have checked thing more before haveing my first cup of coffee. Once again, because I should have known this with out thinking.
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  #8  
Old 27 May 2007, 10:16 PM
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When I worked at the kennel it was pathetic (and scary) how many times I had to remind employees not to mix bleach with other chemicals. One woman would constantly use bleach and Disintigrator (an ammonia-based cleaner) to clean the kennels, even after I repeatedly warned her not to. Apparently she thought that if one product was good, both products used together would be even better. Fortunately she wound up making a lot of other big mistakes and was eventually fired.
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  #9  
Old 27 May 2007, 10:31 PM
Doug4.7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Witch View Post
When I called the OB, the first question they asked me was, "How is the rabbit?"
So, your OB asked if the rabbit died?
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  #10  
Old 29 May 2007, 09:39 PM
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Besides the Chloramine gas, a slightly different recipe is to mix PineSol and powder Chlorine (not Chlorox) together (powdered chlorine is often used in pool cleaners).
The resulting reaction (between the Acidic Chlorine and Basic PineSol) will cause copious amounts of heat.

That was trick used by Scout masters to start fires without matches (at least when I was growing up)
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  #11  
Old 29 May 2007, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug4.7 View Post
So, your OB asked if the rabbit died?
You know, I never quite thought of it that way!
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  #12  
Old 30 May 2007, 04:43 AM
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There is one use (well, one legal use) for chlorine bleach and ammonia mixed together... you can use it to get cigarette smoke staining out of models made from a certain kind of plastic (tenite I believe, but that might be spelled wrong). I've done it a few times, but it's definitely not something you want to do indoors... even a partially enclosed shed would be too confined a space IMO. I always did it in the middle of an empty 4 acre field lol... can't be too careful with that stuff.
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  #13  
Old 30 May 2007, 01:19 PM
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I don't think mixing Pine-Sol and Clorox fumes would do much, if anything, but then, I dunno about the smell; there are some scented varieties of bleach sold these days that I think would make you plain sick to your stomach when mixed with a pine aroma!

When I was growing up, it was practically a right of passage at fast-food restaurants for some newbie to try to clean the floor mixing bleach and an ammonia-based cleaner - it seemed like they were forever evacuating the places until the gas dissipated. I think finally some of the places started putting "do not mix"-type warnings on their cleaners (in addition to the "do not drink" and "poison"); I always wondered how long it was going to take the workers to figure out that just because ONE cleaner worked well, adding the other didn't necessiarily make it BETTER!
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  #14  
Old 30 May 2007, 08:48 PM
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According to Clorox, the maker of Pine-sol,in the MSDS sheet-

Pine Sol is:

Pine oil
Alkyl alcohol ethoxylates
Isopropyl alcohol
Sodium petroleum sulfonate

I assume the alcohols are surfactants and the sulfonate is a binder, but none are toxically reactive with Bleach. If anyone would know if it were reactive, i would think Clorox would have a handle on it.
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  #15  
Old 02 June 2007, 03:22 AM
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I used to work at Clorox, We used to store Clorox bleach in a ware house with Stay Fresh cat litter ( they owned them at the time) One day we had a Clorox spill and decided to clean it up with the cat litter.... BIG MISTAKE, released a buch of ammonia gas !!
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  #16  
Old 02 June 2007, 03:11 PM
Singing in the Drizzle Singing in the Drizzle is offline
 
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Cat litter is usaly a good thing for picking up spills of this type. You just have to remember to use the plain clay type of litter. Stay Fresh cat litter is definitely not that.
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  #17  
Old 03 June 2007, 05:48 AM
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RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
 
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A little bit of a hijack, however....

A couple of years ago, this relatively young woman from my synagogue died suddenly. She had developed difficulty breathing after bathing her dog, and though her husband drove her to the hospital (probably shoulda called 911 instead, but that's another thread), she suffered anoxia and died.

The doctor said she probably stopped breathing due to anaphylaxis, and had been allergic to the dog's flea shampoo. So I asked my vet about this, and she had never heard of anyone being allergic to flea shampoo. However, after a bit of thought, she suggested that some flea shampoos contain small amounts of ammonia, which is extremely toxic to fleas; if after bathing the dog, the woman had cleaned out the tub with a bleach cleaner, and had not thoroughly rinsed the tub first, she could have created a toxic gas, which in a small, not-well-ventilated bathroom, could be a serious problem.

I don't know for certain this is what happened, but the woman did die: I can show you her grave-- it's not a foaf situation. And her husband confirmed that the last thing she did before she stopped breathing was bathe the dog.
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  #18  
Old 08 June 2007, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
A little bit of a hijack, however....

A couple of years ago, this relatively young woman from my synagogue died suddenly. She had developed difficulty breathing after bathing her dog, and though her husband drove her to the hospital (probably shoulda called 911 instead, but that's another thread), she suffered anoxia and died.

The doctor said she probably stopped breathing due to anaphylaxis, and had been allergic to the dog's flea shampoo. So I asked my vet about this, and she had never heard of anyone being allergic to flea shampoo. However, after a bit of thought, she suggested that some flea shampoos contain small amounts of ammonia, which is extremely toxic to fleas; if after bathing the dog, the woman had cleaned out the tub with a bleach cleaner, and had not thoroughly rinsed the tub first, she could have created a toxic gas, which in a small, not-well-ventilated bathroom, could be a serious problem.

I don't know for certain this is what happened, but the woman did die: I can show you her grave-- it's not a foaf situation. And her husband confirmed that the last thing she did before she stopped breathing was bathe the dog.
but what about the dog ?
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  #19  
Old 08 June 2007, 02:47 PM
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I have a FOAF situation similar to this - my friend says that a woman she used to work with poured both drain cleaner and bleach down a drain and the fumes killed her.

I do get scared about using bleach in places that might already have other chemicals - like using a toilet cleaner when there is also one of those ty-d-bowl (not necessarily that brand) tabs in the tank.
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  #20  
Old 14 June 2007, 04:34 PM
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The pine oil in Pinesol is the active ingredient. It is a phenol that is toxic and acidic, so I would imagine that mixing it with an also toxic but basic substance wouldn't lead to good things.

But I doubt it would kill you.
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