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  #1  
Old 25 May 2007, 09:54 PM
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Icon104 Farmed coyotes imported into western PA

Comment: In Western Pennsylvania there is a re-emergence of coyotes after
many decades of near extinction in our area. Some people swear they've
seen truckloads of coyotes being hauled in from "coyote farms" in Idaho to
Pennsylvania. The big conspiracy theory is "the insurance companies are
behind it" because they want the coyotes to kill the deer so that fewer
deer means fewer auto/deer accidents and fewer insurance claims.

I think it's all B.S. myself but some avid sportsmen with solid
credentials stand by it.
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  #2  
Old 25 May 2007, 10:01 PM
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I should probably know better than to try and find the logic behind these things, but wouldn't imported coyotes greatly increase the number of car-coyote accidents, even assuming that they decreased the number of car-deer accidents?
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Old 25 May 2007, 10:09 PM
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Sure, but coyotes don't total your car.
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Old 25 May 2007, 11:40 PM
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Just thought I'd share my fun with dyslexia moment. Read the title as Framed coyotes. Which lead to the though of corrupt coyote cops etc.

As for the OP, anyone else wondering how a hunter can get credentials?
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  #5  
Old 26 May 2007, 12:33 AM
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I'd call BS on this one because while coyotes *can* take down deer, most of the prey they eat ranges in size from mice to rabbits. IIRC, they usually hunt alone or sometimes in mated pairs, and they would need a pack (4-6 or so animals I'd guess based on the size of your average coyote) to take down something the size of a deer. The only time they're likely to be hunting in packs that large is the brief time after the pups are weaned and before they scatter to find mates and territories of their own. By all means correct me if I'm wrong, but thats what I remember about coyotes anyways.
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  #6  
Old 26 May 2007, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambubba View Post
Sure, but coyotes don't total your car.
Sorry, I am a Floridian, I forget how big real deer are.
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  #7  
Old 26 May 2007, 04:09 AM
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Friend of mine tried to keep a coyote pup he found. The pup defecated every time he tried to pick it up and even after 2 months would not eat when he was in sight.
Since coyotes aren't pack animals, I don't see how they could be feasibly farmed. Since they are considered a nuisance animal in most places, I don't see why anybody would want to farm them.
This would be more 'believable' if it claimed that coyotes were being caught in areas of abundance (like around here; I see them often on my way to work) and shipped to Pennsylvania.
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  #8  
Old 26 May 2007, 12:52 PM
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Really coyotes are so good at what they do they can live anywhere. I know people usually associate them with "The West" but they've been spotted in New York (in Central Park no less) and Washington DC before.

Provided an area has enough small game (mice, rats, rabbits, probably squirrels etc) or has enough unsecured trash bins, a coyote can make a pretty good life for itself. I've run across them in cities before... my previous dog had a positive hatred for coyotes and would kill them given half a chance. He killed one on a walk in what was essentially a city area several years ago. While on a leash. I may have mentioned he hated them... we think he saw them as a threat to his "flock", you know how collies are. Since he didn't have anything else, he considered the cats and humans to be his responsibility. The phrase "like herding cats" comes to mind.

If this works, here is a google map of the area. Depending where the map takes you, you'll go a little north of the actual address and theres a big open field with a kind of triangular shaped area of trees and I think theres a swampy pond thing in the middle of that. I was walking him along that path on the south edge of the open area, the coyote ran out of the wooded triangle, and Laddie thought it was attacking me (it was just running I think, they're usually pretty shy). If that doesn't work, you can go to google maps and put in 1355 S Galena St Denver CO 80247 and move just a touch north of the actual address.

While that IS in Colorado, if you use the google map to take a look around the area, you'll notice it's definitely NOT what most people would call "rural" heh. And yet coyotes are a problem in that area, they get into garbage and are one of the many reasons it's inadviseable to let cats out around there... the coyotes will eat them.
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  #9  
Old 26 May 2007, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
The big conspiracy theory is "the insurance companies are
behind it" because they want the coyotes to kill the deer so that fewer
deer means fewer auto/deer accidents and fewer insurance claims.
A coyote can't even kill a bird, I've seen it several times on TV. They sure try, though...
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  #10  
Old 26 May 2007, 04:29 PM
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Wolf Pa. Wildlife Officials Quash Coyote-Deer Risk Management Rumor

Note that this article is from 2004:

Quote:
Did you hear the one about the insurance agent and the coyote?

So have the Pennsylvania Game Commission, wildlife agencies in other states and insurers.

They all dismiss as urban legend claims that insurance companies and wildlife agencies release coyotes in hopes of reducing deer-car collision claims.
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news...2/29/49076.htm
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  #11  
Old 26 May 2007, 04:32 PM
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I see that article brought out the loons:

Quote:
If you think that an article saying that either the game commision or the insurance co. don't have something to do with the HIGH number of coyotes in a short period of time that have showed up in PA and Ohio just happen because of migration will fool people you must think we are stupid. I just hope that on day and it will happen that the people responsible for this will see their day in court. When they start atacking peoples pets because they have desimated all of the small game and food supply then maybe then people will wake up. I hope that is sooner than later. With enough money you can do anything.
Quote:
HAVE HEARD FROM A FEW PEOPLE IN THIS AREA THAT THAY SAW A SEMI TRUCK AND TRAILER LOADED WITH CRATES OF COYOTES BEING UNLOADED AROUND COCHRANTON PA. JUST WONDERED IF ANYONE ELSE KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT IT??
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  #12  
Old 26 May 2007, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyndaD View Post
Friend of mine tried to keep a coyote pup he found. The pup defecated every time he tried to pick it up and even after 2 months would not eat when he was in sight.
Since coyotes aren't pack animals, I don't see how they could be feasibly farmed. Since they are considered a nuisance animal in most places, I don't see why anybody would want to farm them.
This would be more 'believable' if it claimed that coyotes were being caught in areas of abundance (like around here; I see them often on my way to work) and shipped to Pennsylvania.

Actually, coyotes can and do spend time in packs.

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/v...Holmberg4.html

http://canidae.ca/COYOTEBE.HTM

So, yeah. They can definately be pack animals.

Morrigan
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  #13  
Old 26 May 2007, 04:39 PM
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Wolf

Quote:
Predator-prey relationships between the white-tailed deer and the coyote have been extensively studied. The coyote is a significant predator of deer fawns. Studies in Texas have shown that the coyote’s diet consists of 70% fawns during June and July. Sheep predation by coyotes is known to drop drastically when fawns are born around the first of June. The synchronous birth of fawns in June allows the numbers of fawns to overwhelm the predators, and although a large number of fawns are taken during the first month of the fawns’ lives, they become relatively secure after about one month. During winter predation again picks up and deer again become the main diet of coyotes. Although the coyote takes healthy adult deer during the winter, winter killed and wounded deer as well as carcasses and offal from hunting season probably make up the bulk of the winter diet.

In areas, such as West Virginia, where deer populations are abundant, coyote predation may benefit deer health by reducing the deer herd and providing more nutrients for the remaining deer. Coyote predation also has the potential to have significant negative effects on deer herds. In some northern states, deer herd densities are relatively low and their habitat consists of vast wild areas with severe winter weather. In Maine, food habitat studies showed that white-tailed deer made up 50-60% of the coyote’s diet, and this predation had the potential to have significant negative effects on the deer herd. Coyote predation in the high mountain areas of West Virginia with lower deer populations and severe winters is likely to have more effect on the deer herd than in areas with higher deer populations.

In Texas, fawn survival in a coyote proof enclosure was significantly higher than outside the enclosure; however, as deer populations in the enclosure exceeded their carrying capacity fawn survival from 6-12 months was greatest outside the enclosure because the fawns were in better physical condition. This demonstrated that coyote predation in a deer population that exceeded the carrying capacity of the habitat could increase survival of older fawns.

In a fawn survival study in Centre County Pennsylvania during 2000-2001, 218 fawns were radioed and followed with telemetry equipment. Of these fawns, predators killed 22 percent, the leading source of mortality. Of the fawns killed by predators, most were killed by coyotes (49%) and bears (43%). Nearly 50% of all mortality occurred during the month of June, with 18 percent and 16 percent in July and August. It was interesting to note that 84 percent of fawn predation occurred on one of two study areas. This probably illustrates the difference in predation rates due to localized coyote populations.
http://www.wvdnr.gov/Hunting/CoyoteResearch.shtm
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  #14  
Old 26 May 2007, 11:32 PM
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Given that study, perhaps increasing the coyote population would reduce overall deer population given enough time (due to predation of fawns), but I don't know that that is quite what the author of the original piece was thinking.

Of course, from strictly a deer management perspective, increasing coyote populations would be an effective strategy... the reason there are so many deer is because there are so few predators. But then you have problems with human-predator interaction. Honestly there are very few workable solutions to the deer overpopulation problem that would be effective without causing more problems than it solves. Heaven knows I don't know what the answer is.
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Old 26 May 2007, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troberg View Post
A coyote can't even kill a bird, I've seen it several times on TV. They sure try, though...
Think of the boost to the local economy though. The increased sales of dynamite, spring powered road traps, gigantic magnets, magnetic bird seed and rocket powered sleds, to name but a few
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  #16  
Old 26 May 2007, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zabia View Post
Just thought I'd share my fun with dyslexia moment. Read the title as Framed coyotes. Which lead to the though of corrupt coyote cops etc.
I read it as "Famed Coyotes." Like they're these really celebrated coyotes, maybe they were on a coyote reality show or something.
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  #17  
Old 27 May 2007, 12:23 AM
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Ponder

If the insurance companies really don't want to pay off on collision-with-deer claims, why don't they simply exclude such accidents from their comprehensive coverage? Is there a law that precludes them from doing so?

- snopes
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  #18  
Old 11 June 2007, 07:17 AM
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Coyotes were rare in Pennsylvania before the 1970's because they are probably not native to the area. Only in the last 50 years have coyotes been confirmed to be in the area, and it is likely that the early sightings were just the animals trying to gain a foothold. By the 1970's that foothold was firmly established and the Eastern Coyote began to be described. It is a different animal then it's Western brother, somewhat larger and more social, probably a consequence of breeding with Canadian wolves. They also tend to be nocturnal to better avoid human contact.

The avid sportsmen the OP mentions probably remember or heard from folks who remember a time before the coyote began to thrive. Given this, it isn't hard to think of the "sudden" explosion of coyotes as something artifical. But the fact of the matter is that coyote populations have exploded in every state east of the Mississippi in the last 30 years. This is because of a combination of open ecological niches and the coyote's ability to adapt.

Coyotes don't need the help of insurance companies...
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  #19  
Old 11 June 2007, 08:05 AM
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Maybe they're shipping them in to pick off the packs of wild chihuahuas? Except coyotes recognise chihuahuas as desert kin.
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  #20  
Old 11 June 2007, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Neeva View Post
Honestly there are very few workable solutions to the deer overpopulation problem that would be effective without causing more problems than it solves. Heaven knows I don't know what the answer is.
Increase the number of deer that hunters are allowed to take each hunting season?
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