The folded napkin/gravecloth

[Saran Wrap]

I'm not familiar enough with the Greek language or Jewish customs from 2000 years ago to make heads or tails about this, but I wouldn't think that they would have had napkins as we know them. What do you think?
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The Gospel of John (20: 7) tells us that the napkin, which was placed over the face of Jesus, was not just thrown aside like the grave clothes. The Bible takes an entire verse to tell us that the napkin was neatly folded, and was placed at the head of that stony coffin. Is that important? You'd better believe it! Is that significant? Absolutely! Is it really significant? Yes!

In order to understand the significance of the folded napkin, you have to understand a little bit about Hebrew tradition of that day. The folded napkin had to do with the Master and Servant, and every Jewish boy knew this tradition. When the servant set the dinner table for the master, he made sure that it was exactly the way the master wanted it. The table was furnished perfectly, and then the servant would wait, just out of sight, until the master had finished eating, and the servant would not dare touch that table, until the master was finished.

Now if the master was done eating, he would rise from the table, wipe his fingers, his mouth, and clean his beard, and would wad up that napkin and toss it onto the table. The servant would then know to clear the table. For in those days, the wadded napkin meant, "I'm done". But if the master got up from the table, and folded his napkin, and laid it beside his plate, the servant would not dare touch the table, because the servant knew that the folded napkin meant, "I'm not finished yet." The folded napkin meant, "I'm coming back!"

He is Coming Back!

[qualli]

So we're supposed to sit around and do nothing until God is done, and then clean up his mess?


..uh..sorry.. I have nothing relevent to add.

[Thera]

I thought you're supposed to leave the napkin in the chair if you have to get up before you're finished...

[Buckle Up]

So when does Jesus get to wad up his napkin and stop eating the world? And how many of his servants will starve to death in the corner waiting for him to finish? And where is he going if he's not done yet? What, is he in the next room watching the Saints game or something?

This is one of the funniest, most forced, crazy, literally unbelievable pieces of rubbish I've ever read in the Christ metaphor realm. I hope Jesus is having a good laugh over it, wherever the h ...uh... wherever he is.

[Silas Sparkhammer]

That one reminds me a bit of the "reason" for the thirteen folds of an American flag. Here's one example.

It's a load of nonsense, invented -- I just have to say it -- out of whole cloth.

Silas

[Wicked Tinkerbell]

Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer

That one reminds me a bit of the "reason" for the thirteen folds of an American flag. Here's one example.

It's a load of nonsense, invented -- I just have to say it -- out of whole cloth.

Silas

Silas,

I lurve you to death, but

(OK, maybe just because I got here late & didn't get to post it first. )

[Floater]

Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer

That one reminds me a bit of the "reason" for the thirteen folds of an American flag. Here's one example.

You, Sir, owe me a new keyboard. I just threw up on the old one.

[Bettie Page Turner]

Originally Posted by Thera

I thought you're supposed to leave the napkin in the chair if you have to get up before you're finished...

Correct. Leave the napkin in the chair if you are returning to the tomb, place the napkin beside the plate when you are leaving the tomb to appear to your apostles and then ascend to heaven.

[Gg83]

Is that important? You'd better believe it! Is that significant? Absolutely! Is it really significant? Yes!

Do you think the author may possibly attribute some significance to this detail?

I do wonder, though, what the importance was of the setting aside of the cloth that covered Jesus' head. Was it simply a specific detail in the scene, or did it have some symbolic meaning? It seems to me that it ought to mean something, but that's just an intuitive feeling based on how symbolic John's gospel can be and the fact that the detail was apparently important enough to mention. I certainly don't know what it might symbolize, but I doubt the explanation in the OP. Also, not all translations say that it was neatly folded--for instance, the New American Bible says it was "rolled up in a separate place" (John 20:7).

Originally Posted by Gg83

Do you think the author may possibly attribute some significance to this detail?

I do wonder, though, what the importance was of the setting aside of the cloth that covered Jesus' head. Was it simply a specific detail in the scene, or did it have some symbolic meaning? It seems to me that it ought to mean something, but that's just an intuitive feeling based on how symbolic John's gospel can be and the fact that the detail was apparently important enough to mention. I certainly don't know what it might symbolize, but I doubt the explanation in the OP. Also, not all translations say that it was neatly folded--for instance, the New American Bible says it was "rolled up in a separate place" (John 20:7).

It means that someone was eating Jesus' face?

[Silas Sparkhammer]

Originally Posted by Zakor

It means that someone was eating Jesus' face?

Judas betrayed him with a kiss...but not that kind of kiss!

Silas

[Bassist]

Originally Posted by Gg83

Also, not all translations say that it was neatly folded--for instance, the New American Bible says it was "rolled up in a separate place" (John 20:7).

Great - now we won't know whether he's coming back to finish his meal or the napkin was rolled up because he was done. Is there any mention, perhaps, of the use of a napkin ring with the rolled napkin (signifying, most likely, the neverending eternity that his return will require)?

I'd like to think this was written as satire, but unfortunately given what I've learnt about such people, probably the poor deluded soul who wrote it actually thought he was onto something with his anachronistic reading of the KJV's "napkin" as a table napkin (or serviette as we call it here; our napkins are your "diapers"). I was half expecting it to end with "so kids, let's all be like Jesus and have good table manners and fold up our clothes neatly"! Instead it's even more absurd. There have been some real doozies of "symbolic" interpretations of Bible passages, but I think this one takes the cake.

And yet the story starts out so well. Yes indeed there IS an extremely important reason why John goes to some length to explain the detail about the head-cloth. Up until he saw it, he and the other apostles refused to believe Jesus could rise from the dead, but with just one glance at the cloth, "he saw and believed; for previously they did not know the scripture, that he must rise from the dead". He instantly saw that no other explanation was possible. No, he didn't have time to work out some symbolic meaning about it. The head-cloth was still "folded" or "rolled up" in the place where Jesus' head had been, ("in its proper place, by itself") just as if it was still wound around Jesus' head, but there was no head inside! It was immediately obvious that it wasn't just a matter of someone having taken the body, or that they went to the wrong tomb; or even that Jesus had come back to life like Lazarus and he or someone else had then unwrapped the cloths (John 11:44). The only possible explanation for what he saw was that Jesus had risen through the cloths without unwrapping them.

[Silas Sparkhammer]

PeterK: I'm afraid you're reading more into the text than it can support.

The NRSV says, "Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen wrappings lying there, and the cloth that had been on Jesus’ head, not lying with the linen wrappings but rolled up in a place by itself."

Not necessarily exactly where Jesus' head had been, as if Jesus' head had been "beamed up," as you extrapolate. Christ might have awakened from the dead, unwrapped himself (or been unwrapped by angelic attendants) and the cloth over the face set aside.

Sufficient unto the day are the evils...and the miracles...thereof. You don't need to add these jots and tittles; in fact, the Bible rather forbids it.

Silas

Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer

PeterK: I'm afraid you're reading more into the text than it can support.

The NRSV says, "Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen wrappings lying there, and the cloth that had been on Jesus’ head, not lying with the linen wrappings but rolled up in a place by itself."

Not necessarily exactly where Jesus' head had been, as if Jesus' head had been "beamed up," as you extrapolate. Christ might have awakened from the dead, unwrapped himself (or been unwrapped by angelic attendants) and the cloth over the face set aside.

If John does not mean that the head-cloth is where Jesus head had been, why did he bother pointing out the otherwise irrelevant and utterly trivial detail that the head-cloth was separate from the body-cloth?

Sufficient unto the day are the evils...and the miracles...thereof. You don't need to add these jots and tittles; in fact, the Bible rather forbids it.

Silas

It was John who added this detail. I am merely repeating what is the most convincing reason I have seen why he added it. Don't scorn this explanation unless you can come up with a better one.

Also requiring another explanation is the fact that the apostles obviously and immediately regarded Jesus' resurrection as utterly different from the other instances in the Bible where people came back from the dead.

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by PeterK

[O]ur napkins are your "diapers."

Mental note: Wipe hands on pants when visiting Australia.

[Grand Illusion]

If we believe the symbology in the original story, that a folded cloth means "I'm coming back," I would think that a folded cloth in a tomb mean "I'm coming back to the tomb."

Also, why did the writer call the cloth a "napkin?" How did a burial cloth become associated with an eating cloth?

[TrishDaDish]

Originally Posted by Corwin

Mental note: Wipe hands on pants when visiting Australia.

Another mental note: Make sure Australians know what you mean by "pants". Our "pants" may be their "boxer shorts". Best to call them "trousers", on the safe side.

I question the interpretation of John 20:7, regarding the significance of "the folded napkin", meaning that Jesus is signifying: "I will return!".

This interpretation has just surfaced, in the last 6-8 months, in my circle of Believers. I have 4+ years of a conservative Seminary education, back in the early 60's, and have been in ministry for the last 40+ years, having attended many Bible conferences, and continuing education programs, during that time, and this interpretation was never taught. I have several substantial commentaries on the Gospel of John in my personal library, and none of these commentaries remotely suggest this interpretation. Any serious exegesis, or the pulling out of Scripture what Scripture is actually is saying, does not come up with this current interpretation. However, I see much eisegesis, or reading into Scripture what anyone wants Scripture to say, in play here.

There is great danger of interpreting Scripture with what I want it to say, and not what Scripture is actually saying. By the way, Jesus is returning!!!

Blessings to all!!

olspice

[Silas Sparkhammer]

There is, of course, some room for new historical research in explaining and understanding Biblical references. It is just barely within the realm of possibility that someone had found an ancient Jewish book of table manners, including the signal of a folded napkin as an indication of an intent to return.

Trouble is, such things have to be adequately footnoted and documented, and (of course) the legend in the OP was not.

Check out snopes' own (magnificent!) explanation of how "Sing a Song of Sixpence" is a way for pirates to recruit new crewmembers. It is a brilliant example of how an agile mind can interpolate data, creating a (convincing!) link where none existed before.

Silas