Interview with illegal immigrant

[snopes]

Comment: Here is a REAL INTERVIEW with an illegal Mexican at a
protest march in Texas



Trying to reason with an Illegal Mexican

This is good! Below is a good example of a discussion with
a master of circular logic. Don't be logical, don't respect the
truth or your adversary, just say what you think makes a new case
when the previous case gets too difficult to defend. On the streets
of downtown Houston , May 1, 2006.

Jim Moore reporting for a Houston TV station:

Jim: Juan, I see that you and thousands of other protesters
are marching in the streets to demonstrate for your cause.
Exactly what is your cause and what do you expect to accomplish by this
protest?

Juan: We want our rights. We will show you how powerful we
are. We will bring Houston to its knees!

Jim: What rights?

Juan: Our right to live here...legally. Our right to get
all the benefits you get.

Jim: When did you come to the United State s?

Juan: Six years ago. I crossed over the border at night
with seven other friends.

Jim: Why did you come?

Juan: For work. I can earn as much in a month as I could in
a year in Mexico . Besides, I get free health care, our Mexican
children can go to school free, if I lose my job I will get Welfare,
and someday I will have the Social Security. Nothing like that
in Mexico !

Jim: Did you feel badly about breaking our immigration laws
when you came?

Juan: No! Why should I feel bad? I have a right to be here.
I have a right to amnesty. I paid lots of money for my Social
Security and Green Cards.

Jim: How did you acquire those documents?

Juan: >From a guy in Dallas . He charged me a lot of money
too.

Jim: Did you know that those documents were forged?

Juan: It is of no matter. I have a right to be here and
work.

Jim: What is the "right" you speak of?

Juan: The right of all Aliens. It is found in your
Constitution. Read it!

Jim: I have read it, but I do not remember it saying
anything about rights for Aliens.

Juan: It is in that part where it says that all men have
Alien rights, like the right to pursue happiness. I wasn't happy
in Mexico , so I came here.

Jim: I think you are referring to the declaration of Independence
and that document speaks to unalienable rights ... Not Alien rights.

Juan: Whatever.

Jim: Since you are demanding to become an American citizen,
why then are you carrying a Mexican Flag?

Juan: Because I am Mexican.

Jim: But you said you want to be given amnesty ... To become
a US citizen.

Juan: No. This is not what we want. This is our country, a
part of Mexico that you Gringos stole from us. We want it returned
to its rightful owner.

Jim: Juan, you are standing in Texas . After wining the war
with Mexico , Texas became a Republic, and later Texans voted to
join the USA . It was not stolen from Mexico .

Juan: That is a Gringo lie. Texas was stolen. So was
California , New Mexico and Arizona . It is just like all
the other stuff you Gringos steal, like oil and babies. You are a
country of thieves.

Jim: Babies? You think we steal babies?

Juan: Sure. Like from Korea and Vietnam and China . I see
them all over the place. You let all these foreigners in, but
try to keep us Mexicans out. How is this fair?

Jim: So, you really don't want to become an American
citizen then.

Juan: I jus t want my rights! Everyone has a right to live,
work, and speak their native language wherever and whenever they
please. That's another thing we demand. All signs and official
documents should be in Spanish. Teachers must teach in Spanish.
Soon, more people here in Houston will speak Spanish than English. It
is our right!

Jim: If I were to cross over the border into Mexico without
proper documentation, what rights would I have there?

Juan: None. You would probably go to jail, but that's
different.

Jim: How is it different? You said everyone has the right
to live wherever they please.

Juan: You Gringos are a bunch of land grabbing thieves. Now
you want Mexico too? Mexico has its rights. You Gringos have no
rights in Mexico . Why would you want to go there anyway? There
is no free medical service, schools, or welfare there for foreigners
such as you. You cannot even own land in my country. Stay in the cou ntry
of your birth.

Jim: I can see that there is no way that we can agree on
this issue. Thank you for your comments.

Juan: Viva Mexico !

[putitinwriting]

Good lord. What a pile of BS. Anyway, a quick google search turns this up (look at a post halfway down from Foghorn Leghorn). That's not exactly a complete debunking, but how much does something this fake need?

Although, the stealing babies part did give me a chuckle.

[Canuckistan]

Jim Moore did once work for KHOU TV in Houston, although he no longer appears to be there. No idea where he's moved on to.

This link says there was an immigrant protest on the day in question.

But I cannot find anything to indpendently verify that this exchange took place. If it did, and it was aired, you'd think it would be on YouTube or something. A quick search found none, although I could be mistaken there. Also, the tone sounds far too combattive for a reporter.

If it is the same guy, Jim Moore now is a blogger on Huffingtonpost.com. This is a liberal news outlet which means balanced. I can not find a way to contact him via Huffingtonpost to find out if this is a true repesentation of the interview.

This is so over the top, it's hard to tell if it's meant to be satire.
A few things that stick out to me:

Juan: We want our rights. We will show you how powerful we are. We will bring Houston to its knees!

First, notice how needlessly aggressive this character is. It's not enough to depict immigrants as selfish and uncaring about how their presence affects our country, they have to be intentionally harmful. It's not enough to think of them as people desperate for opportunity, they have to be malicious invaders.

Second, is the phrase "bring... to it's knees" commonly used in Mexico? Does that metaphor even exist in their culture? One reoccurring feature of depictions of foreign characters is to have them use antiquated English expressions. Using outdated terminology makes them seem primitive, and less sophisticated than the civilized world.

Besides, I get free health care,

Apparently he migrated all the way to Vermont.

our Mexican children can go to school free,

Unless he also has children adopted from other countries, it's very odd that he would phrase it that way. Are we to believe that he's so proud of his nationality that he includes the clarification "Mexican" even when it isn't needed?
I suspect the author included it here to make the readers think of them as "Mexican" before thinking of them as simply being "children".

if I lose my job I will get Welfare, and someday I will have the Social Security. Nothing like that in Mexico !

There goes his pride for his homeland.
A quick Google search reveals that Mexico does have their own versions of Welfare and Social Security. They may or may not be as available or as far reaching as in the U.S. but they do exist.

Juan: The right of all Aliens. It is found in your Constitution. Read it!
...
Jim: I think you are referring to the declaration of Independence
and that document speaks to unalienable rights ... Not Alien rights.
Juan: Whatever.

This ridiculously drawn out exchange is little more than a pun. A bad joke about a Mexican being only able to recognize "...alien... rights" and being stupid enough to base his beliefs on this mistranslation.
Another google search shows that the Mexican Constitution also begins with a statement about rights that cannot be denied or suspended. So this would not be an unfamiliar concept.

Jim: Since you are demanding to become an American citizen, why then are you carrying a Mexican Flag?

Incidently, living in a red state I often wonder why so many "Real Americans" have Confederate Flag decorations.

Jim: But you said you want to be given amnesty ... To become a US citizen.
Juan: No. This is not what we want. This is our country, a part of Mexico that you Gringos stole from us. We want it returned to its rightful owner.

Once again, it's not enough to think of Illegal Immigrants as wanting a better life for themselves. They have to want something far more sinister.

Jim: Babies? You think we steal babies?
Juan: Sure. Like from Korea and Vietnam and China . I see them all over the place. You let all these foreigners in, but try to keep us Mexicans out. How is this fair?

Another lame joke. This Mexican (as a representative of all Illegal Immigrants) is so backwards, or stupid that he doesn't understand the concept of adoption.
More google-fu shows that of course they have Adoption in Mexico. And that Americans adopt children from Mexico quite often (one would imagine this is most common near the U.S./Mexican border).

[Wild Redhead]

Originally Posted by pokethis

If it is the same guy, Jim Moore now is a blogger on Huffingtonpost.com. This is a liberal news outlet which means balanced. I can not find a way to contact him via Huffingtonpost to find out if this is a true repesentation of the interview.

Liberal news outlet doesn't necessarily mean it is balanced, which I assume you mean to be unbiased. Liberal news IMHO often leaves out important facts and fails to use reliable sources.

[LyndaD]

Not discounting the probable BSness of this interview, but I have firsthand heard some of the views expressed by 'Juan' expressed by my students.

Two years ago many Hispanics staged protests in this area to protest immigration reform. Almost half my students walked off campus one day to join the protests. There was also a "Day without Immigrants" when they were encouraged by MAPA and others to not go to work and keep their kids home from school. The purpose of this day was to show how much our economy depends on immigrants (it didn't work). I also had students demmanding their 'rights' and the 'rights' of their parents who were born in Mexico. They also mentioned that CA was originally part of Mexico and would someday be part of it again.

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by LyndaD

Two years ago many Hispanics staged protests in this area to protest immigration reform. Almost half my students walked off campus one day to join the protests. There was also a "Day without Immigrants" when they were encouraged by MAPA and others to not go to work and keep their kids home from school. The purpose of this day was to show how much our economy depends on immigrants (it didn't work). .

and either of those are bad things?

Originally Posted by LyndaD

I also had students demmanding their 'rights' and the 'rights' of their parents who were born in Mexico. They also mentioned that CA was originally part of Mexico and would someday be part of it again.

And I can totally see that perspective. Sure. Lots of it is rhetoric and anger, but I think some of that is understandable.

This is our country, a part of Mexico that you Gringos stole from us....Texas was stolen. So was
California , New Mexico and Arizona...

Well, he at least got that part right....

[snopes]

This is our country, a part of Mexico that you Gringos stole from us....Texas was stolen.

Was Texas really "stolen" from Mexico any differently than the original 13 colonies were "stolen" from Great Britain? In both cases people who lived in those lands decided they wanted to be politically independent of the powers who had originally colonized/settled them and successfully waged war to achieve that end.

- snopes

Originally Posted by snopes

Was Texas really "stolen" from Mexico any differently than the original 13 colonies were "stolen" from Great Britain?

I would say that one started when the British stole the colonies from the original inhabitants...



"Yea, and when my ancestors saw yours getting off those boats. My ancestors were trying to decide if they should eat you....I think they made the wrong decision..." (paraphrasing actual comments by some of my in-laws)

[snopes]

Originally Posted by Doug4.7

I would say that one started when the British stole the colonies from the original inhabitants...

But of course, nobody lived in the area we call "Mexico" before the Spanish colonized it ...

- snopes

Originally Posted by snopes

But of course, nobody lived in the area we call "Mexico" before the Spanish colonized it ...

But the dude was Mexican, not Spanish. But yea, I could see a native talk the same way about Mexico...

[snopes]

Originally Posted by Doug4.7

But the dude was Mexican, not Spanish.

But the guys who "stole" the colonies from the Indians were British, not Americans.

- snopes

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by LyndaD

There was also a "Day without Immigrants" when they were encouraged by MAPA and others to not go to work and keep their kids home from school. The purpose of this day was to show how much our economy depends on immigrants (it didn't work).

Ahh..."A Day Without a Mexican!" Awesome movie!

[LyndaD]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

and either of those are bad things?



And I can totally see that perspective. Sure. Lots of it is rhetoric and anger, but I think some of that is understandable.

Bad that they were protesting, bad that the kids ditched school, or bad that it didn't work?

Not one of my students knew what they were protesting. Every last one of them insisted that I (a Gringo American) was hell-bent on kicking all Mexicans out of the country, regardless of where they were born. They were convinced that the legislation was directed solely at Mexican immigrants and didn't even realize that people from other countries immigrated to the United States.
I'm all for protesting, but at the very least they should acurrately know what they are protesting. Much of the protestors carried Mexican flags and chanted, 'Mexico! Mexico!"

[AnglRdr]

Lynda, I'm just throwing this out there, but maybe your students did know what they were protesting, and you were the one who didn't understand.

[DesertRat]

Add me to the list of people who believe this is just waayyyyy too over the top to be true.

That does not mean that there are not ill-informed or ignorant individuals that share some of these views--I have little doubt that there are. But I strongly doubt that the pisspoor racist charicture "quoted" above exists, or that this exchange ever happened.

Have I mentioned lately how much this tactics irks me--namely, misrepresenting your opposition's argument by overemphasizing the views of the extreme fringe? EVERY movement has its whackos, and you don't have to look to far--but if you have to come up with propoganda drivel like the spiel above in an attempt to discredit your opponent, all that tells me is that you either a) don't understand your opposition's argument or b) are incapable of coming up with a reasoned, effective rebuttal.

[Silas Sparkhammer]

Originally Posted by snopes

Was Texas really "stolen" from Mexico any differently than the original 13 colonies were "stolen" from Great Britain? In both cases people who lived in those lands decided they wanted to be politically independent of the powers who had originally colonized/settled them and successfully waged war to achieve that end.

For Texas, I think you are right and make a valid case.

For California, now... That's a lot harder to justify; I'd have to say that the seizure of California was aggrandizement by conquest. However...it wasn't exactly illegal in those days. (The Franco-Prussian War comes to mind, or the seizure of Schleswig and Holstein...)

Today, by international treaty (and by general consensus) such a conquest would be illegal. (For whatever "law" is worth in time of war...)

Silas

[LyndaD]

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

Lynda, I'm just throwing this out there, but maybe your students did know what they were protesting, and you were the one who didn't understand.

The legislation in question was not advocating the removal of everyone who had ancestors from Mexico, nor was it specifically targeting people of Mexican origin. Additionally, that piece of legislation did not express my personal views as I hold them, or as stated by my students.
My response to this situation was to find a copy of the proposal online, print it out and go over it with my students, helping them work through what it actually said.