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  #1  
Old 09 May 2007, 03:44 AM
Messiemom
 
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Default Advantage/Advantix killing pets?

Hi,
This is my first post on this forum. My SIL's are always sending me Urban Legends and I come here to Snopes and then let them know that they had fallen victim to yet, another UL. But the last email I got from SIL was about a pet owner whose dog died from cancer from using Advantix flea treatment. It sounded like a UL to me, but I cannot seem to find anything about it on Snopes. Has anyone heard of it? I searched Critters, and Toxic chemicals, and I did a general search on "Advantix" but nothing has turned up. I would really appreciate your help in this matter.

MM
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  #2  
Old 09 May 2007, 08:29 AM
landmammal landmammal is offline
 
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I hadn't heard of it causing cancer, but K-9 Advantix is very toxic to cats and my vets office says it doesn't work very well anyway.
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  #3  
Old 09 May 2007, 12:19 PM
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Spam & Cookies-mmm Spam & Cookies-mmm is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landmammal View Post
I hadn't heard of it causing cancer, but K-9 Advantix is very toxic to cats and my vets office says it doesn't work very well anyway.
Bayer is making some pretty outrageous claims about it, if it doesn't work very well.

Quote:
It' kills 98-100% of fleas in 12 hours and any new fleas that jump on your treated dog are killed within 2 hours. K9 AdvantixTM works for up to a month.
I don't use Advantix. I use Sentinel, which works very well for our dog.
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  #4  
Old 09 May 2007, 12:49 PM
Lady Neeva
 
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Going out on a limb here, but I think there is probably a pretty good chance that if the claim (that Advantix caused his/her pet's cancer) exists and if one could find the person making it, chances are that the treatment with Advantix was the most recent thing she had done with her pet that she could link to the cancer. Basically she had an effect (the cancer) and automatically defaulted to blaming the most recent cause (the Advantix) to explain it. Human nature in some instances I think.

In any event, I'm just glad there isn't much of a flea problem in Colorado... if I lived somewhere with more fleas, I'd probably go broke every summer treating four cats and a dog LOL. I can't remember the last time I saw a flea... think it was about 93 or so, we'd had to leave a cat at the vets overnight for something or the other, and it just happened there was another cat there that had just come in from out of state and was crawling with them. At least the vet comp'ed the flea treatment, which I thought was nice of them seeing as they had no way of knowing the cat was infested until they examined it.
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  #5  
Old 09 May 2007, 10:01 PM
Messiemom
 
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Hi again,
I was trying to find the email she sent me. It sounded like an UL because of the gory details about the dog having a hole eaten away where the medication was applied. Then the story went along saying that the vets don't like using these products, but they "have to" sell them (as if they get some kind of commission from them like drs. do for meds). There were links to websites where supposedly other people have had pets go through these agonizing kinds of death. Usually, when I see detailed "scare tactics" that cause an emotional response, I am suspicious that it is an UL. I tried to email Snopes about this, but couldn't get through (they must get millions of emails daily). So I was hoping to find out whether this is an UL since she asked me to look into it. We have a cat on Advantage, and it doesn't seem to bother him at all. I don't know if Advantix is a different product.

Thanks for your help.
MM
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  #6  
Old 09 May 2007, 10:05 PM
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Buckle Up Buckle Up is offline
 
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Dog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiemom View Post
Usually, when I see detailed "scare tactics" that cause an emotional response, I am suspicious that it is an UL. I tried to email Snopes about this, but couldn't get through (they must get millions of emails daily).
First of all, Welcome to the boards, Messiemom! Happy to have you.

snopes will get around to it. They do get a lot of mail, but they are also good about addressing things thoroughly.

Since the tainted "cuts & gravy" tragedies, there have been many unsubstantiated claims of other pet dangers. It's almost like a trend. I don't know why...people must find some kind of "importance by contact" to entering the clamor of hoaxes.
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  #7  
Old 09 May 2007, 10:12 PM
Messiemom
 
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Default Okay, here is the email I got

Thanks for the welcome! I finally found the email about the Advantix. What do you all think??

MM
_______________________________________

Subject: Fwd: Advantix, Advantage, Frontline, Bio Spot...TOPICAL Flea products]
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:24:21 -0400
To:

No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
Attached Message
[addresses snipped]
Subject: Fw: [Fwd: RE: Advantix, Advantage, Frontline, Bio Spot...TOPICAL Flea products]
Date:

>
>>
>> This is a cross-post, with permission:
>>
>> I want to relay my personal experience with a topical flea product, as
> well as share info that I discovered after researching this all. > Hopefully
> my experience as well as the info below may prevent this tragedy from
> happening to you & your pets, as well as anyone you know who has pets that
> you want to share this with.
>>
>> In early Oct after bathing all 3 of my dogs, I realized I only had 2 >> tubes
> of Advantage.
>>
>> It was late Saturday p.m., so I ran over to Petsmart's Banfield vet
> clinic, to get another tube. They said they no longer carried Advantage > or
> Frontline, products that I've safely used for years. They said they only
> sold a product called K-9 Advantix- said it was the same thing only better
> (has an ingredient in it to repel mosquitos). I didn't buy it at first, I
> raced home & searched the net, found that it is made by Bayer, who also
> makes Advantage, so I went back & got it. They only had 1 tube left, so
> they put it in a prescription bottle (without including the little info
> flyer).
>>
>> Later that evening I put this on my 11 yr old Sheep dog mix, & right away
> he started running around reaching at his rear & scratching like crazy. > I'm
> thinking he must have had more fleas than I realized. I do not have a > flea
> problem at my house, I treat my yard & have no carpet. I blow him dry & > had
> only found a couple of fleas. Late on Saturday evening, he finally > stopped
> scratching & going berserk & went to sleep. I thought he was just > exhausted
> but the next morning I realized that he was almost comatose. I had to > call
> his name loudly & he could just barely raised his head in response. I
> immediately put in a call to the vet, & in the meantime scoured the web > for
> a way to handle this. I was horrified when I found a public forum
> addressing this product (see link below). Instead of finding a remedy for
> side effects on the Bayer site it was on this forum that I found it. I > even
> read (on this forum) that Bayer admitted to one petowner that they had not
> done extensive testing
>
> on this product as was done on other products.
>> Later the vet called & said to get it off of him immediately, (scrub with
> Dawn dishwashing liquid & rinse, rinse, rinse). He was so lethargic he
> couldn't even stand up in the tub, I had to prop his head up to get this
> washed off of him.
>>
>> He was much better within just hours of getting it off, but it still took
> 7+ days for him to get back to normal. About 4-5 days (still a bit > unstable
> but much better) I took him for a walk. Well, he fell really hard coming > up
> the concrete steps & then slid backwards down them. I got him to the vet > to
> find there was an incredible amount of damage done to the cartilege in his
> throat & a hole the size of a nickel. They cleaned it really good but > left
> the opening so it could
>> drain. Of course it healed & closed within a day. After running to the
> vet daily for almost a week to have them drain the fluid she put in a > drain
> tube. After a month, the vet finally said that had to come out. He is also
> on antibotics for well over a month. When it continued to worsen the vet > ran
> some blood tests& told me they had found cancer cells (melanoma) in his
> throat & that it was spreading & there was nothing more they could do for
> him, to take him home & give him anything he wanted to make him happy &
> comfortable. She
>> said she gave him maybe 3 weeks (12/18/06) . I am in shock!
>>
>> I immediately made an appointment for the next day, with a vet that
> specializes in canine cancer & disease. This vet looked at his wound &
> agreed with the diagnosis. She told me that she had also
>> used this K-9 Advantix on her own dog who had a really bad reaction to it
> as well ( rolling her eyes she said... "but we still sell it") I asked her
> if she felt that this product could be responsible for this
>> cancerous invasion or if maybe he just was predisposed genetically to >> have
> cancer or just what since he was otherwise healthy prior to my using K-9
> Advantix?. She hestitated a minute & very carefully said
>> "Well (a very long well), I can't say that the K-9 Advantix actually
> caused the cancer... and No, he was not just predisposed to have cancer...
> cancer cells just seem to come from nowhere when/where there is a weakened
> part of the body." The vet said that while he may not be in any pain right
> now (melanoma cancers aren't painful like bone or internal cancer) that
> since this was a rapid moving cancer it could
>> spread to other parts of his body & at some point he could have lots of
> pain. She said that since the mass is in his throat that the day would
> probably come that he would not be able to swallow. The first thing I do
> every morning is offer him a little piece of cheese to make sure he can
> still swallow & am soooo relieved when he eats. She says that everything
> could change to bad as quickly as overnight.
>>
>> This cancer is growing massive on his throat (02/01/07) but he seems to
> not be in much distress - he sleeps a lot more but perks up fast if you > ask
> him if he wants to go for a walk or ride. When I call his name, even if he
> is too tired to raise his head, he always wags that tail. Some days are > good
> (Thank God for Rymadil)... & some days are not as good.
>>
>> I am dreading the day he takes a real turn for the worse & am just
> thankful that today he is seems to not be in pain. He wags his tail (along
> with his entire body) ever so humbly when I call his name & then stares
> directly into my heart & my soul when he looks at me - he knows that he is
> loved & he trust me with his entire being. I feel such guilt when I look
> back into those eyes, knowing what I've done to him by using this poison. > I
> am happy and so grateful for the time that I will have left with him - > just
> tormented knowing it will end very soon. He has been the best friend in > the
> world.
>>
>> IMPORTANT INFO & ADVICE THAT EVERYONE NEEDS TO KNOW.........
>>
>> There are 2 main pesticides used in both Advantage & also K-9 Advantix. I
> did not research the one pesticide that is common in both since I have > used
> Advantage for years with no problem. The other pesticide found in K-9
> Advantix, but not in Advantage is permethrin (the mosquito repellent - > also
> used to kill termites). I am shocked at what I have found.
>>
>> Also searched for info on this product & it's relation/link to
>> cancer. and found the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has classified
>> permethrin as a suspected carcenogen.. .
>> http://www.scorecar <http://www.scorecar/> d.org/health- effects/chemical
>> s-2.tcl?short_
>> hazard_name= cancer&all_p= t9
>> (compliled of records and reports from the EPA)
>> also listed here as a definite carcenogen (don't know which is more
>> current)
>> http://www.safe2use <http://www.safe2use/>.com/poisons- pesticides/
>> pesticides/ permethrin/
>> cox-report/ cox.htm
>>
>> Read the comments in this public forum re: K-9 Advantix - it's not
>> just me with this problem... http://www.dogsonly
>> <http://www.dogsonly/>.org/ click on
>> message board on right side side then find the topic K-9 Avdantix.
>> Most recent comments are at the end.
>>
>> Still another public forum that also warns about BIO SPOT ...
>> http://www.elverson <http://www.elverson/> puzzle.com/ biospotlettersv1
>> 3.html
>>
>> Read this article written by a Florida Veterinarian. .
>> Topical Flea Control Products: What's the difference?
>> http://floridapetpa <http://floridapetpa/> ges.com/articles
>> /TopicalFleaCont rolProducts.
>> html
>>
>> Even more Horrible facts......
>> K-9 Advantix can be/ is toxic to dogs if it is applied where they could
> possibly lick it or if a puppy playmate were to get it in their mouths
> playing & wrestling around with a dog that has this on. Unlike Advantage
> that is applied between the shoulder blades, K-9 Advantix is to be applied
> in several spots down the dogs back.
>>
>> No adult dog topical flea products should ever be used on a toy or
> miniature breed - ONLY applications for puppies should ever be used on > these
> breeds - even if they are adult dogs.
>>
>> The product, K-9 Advantix is highly toxic to cats, even if it is on your
> dog & the cat gets it on itself.
>>
>> I am amazed that this is the only topical flea application that >> Petsmart's
> Banfield clinic sells, knowing how many of their petowner clients have > both
> dogs & cats. Petsmarts Banfield clinic never even me asked if I had > cats -
> I have 6. I spoke to a mgr. at Petsmart who got the number for Banfield
> corporate office for me told me that Petsmart doesn't own Banfield. He
> rescues cats (has like 16 or so) & told me he wouldn't use Banfield for
> anything ever - what does that tell you?? What do you think he knows & we
> don't!
>>
>> The Vet told me that right now the best & safest topical flea application
> is Advantage - she even said that Frontline isn't working anymore. She > told
> me there is a new product that will be introduced early 2007 but said she
> was going to keep a watchful eye on that product even before she would use
> it on her own dog. I think many vets won't speak against these products -
> don't know why! Guess they don't want to ruin their relationship with > Bayer
> or maybe they are under some sort of contract.
>>
>> Please if you love your babies, please don't use K-9 Advantix on
> them!!!!!!!! Even if you are using it, & it seems to be OK, they do not > know
> enough about it and by Bayers own admission, it was not thoroughly tested.
> I don't think anyone knows about the long term effects. Please please
> please protect your babies & never use this poison on them!
>>
>> Pat in Atlanta
>>
>>
>>
>> [more personal info snipped] >>
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  #8  
Old 09 May 2007, 10:23 PM
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ElectricBarbarella ElectricBarbarella is offline
 
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Hmmm...sounds very reactionary to me. I've used AdvanTIX on my dog for 6 years now and nothing has ever happened to him. Where I live, I need him to have the mosquito protection.

And, I've also used Banefield--yeah, they're pretty cheap, but still not as horrible as this email makes them out to be.

And I get my Advantix from a Feed Store not a vet or pet store.. hehe


toni
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  #9  
Old 09 May 2007, 10:32 PM
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annabohly annabohly is offline
 
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So is there a cancer that becomes so deadly in a matter of hours???
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  #10  
Old 09 May 2007, 10:36 PM
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Jenn Jenn is offline
 
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Messiemom, in the future, please observe this forum rule:

Quote:
When posting an e-mail forward, make it readable by removing extraneous punctuation and applying standard formatting.
That means removing the >> as well as signatures and advertisements at the end of the message. I removed the email addresses of your friends for you so spammers can't grab their addresses from your post here.
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  #11  
Old 09 May 2007, 10:50 PM
RLS RLS is offline
 
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I don't think cancer would show up after one treatment with a carcinogen. If it had been used regularly for months or years maybe. If the story is true it could have been that the dog already had cancer and the bad reaction to the Advantix brought it to light. This happens with people, they go in for something else and a routine xray shows a spot that is cancer.
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  #12  
Old 09 May 2007, 11:07 PM
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Tootsie Plunkette Tootsie Plunkette is offline
 
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The same message "cross-posted, with permission" is on several boards, and sure to be turning up elsewhere. I can't tell if the writer is "Pat from Atlanta" or "Debbie Stayer Kelly" or someone else. If Debbie wasn't the author (or even if she was), I'm sure she's thrilled her work contact information will be spreading like wildfire all over the Internet.
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  #13  
Old 09 May 2007, 11:07 PM
landmammal landmammal is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spam & Cookies-mmm View Post
Bayer is making some pretty outrageous claims about it, if it doesn't work very well.
My vet suspects resistance has developed. We were talking specifically about ticks, though. I'd been petsitting and there was a box of Advantix in with the pet stuff but the dog kept getting ticks all over, so I asked if I should assume he was due for another dose since it wasn't working. She said not to because they haven't had much success with it and don't sell or recommend it.

After reading that e-mail, it sounds more likely that the dog had cancer already. The dog could have been allergic to permethrin and that's what caused his itching and lethargy.
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  #14  
Old 09 May 2007, 11:16 PM
RBCal RBCal is offline
 
 
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The active insecticide in Advantix is imidacloprid which is a chlorinated analog of nicotine.

From Wikipedia
Quote:
Imidacloprid is rated as "moderately toxic" acutely by the WHO and the EPA (class II or III, requiring a "Warning" or "Caution" label), and a "potential" ground water contaminant. It is rated as an "unlikely" carcinogen by the EPA (group E), and is not listed for endocrine, reproductive, or developmental toxicity, or as a chemical of special concern by any agencies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imidacloprid

Its used on food crops so people ingest low amounts of it.
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  #15  
Old 09 May 2007, 11:17 PM
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Morrigan Morrigan is offline
 
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Along the same lines, we don't use Sentinel on our breeding females because it screws up their heat (they don't get pregnant.) We're not the only breeders to run into that, either. We just use Interceptor instead, and haven't run into any of the problems.

Morrigan
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  #16  
Old 09 May 2007, 11:23 PM
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erwins erwins is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLS View Post
I don't think cancer would show up after one treatment with a carcinogen. If it had been used regularly for months or years maybe. If the story is true it could have been that the dog already had cancer and the bad reaction to the Advantix brought it to light. This happens with people, they go in for something else and a routine xray shows a spot that is cancer.
That would be my guess too. In particular, it suggests that the dog had cancer -- notice it's on his throat, not the back of his neck -- and that the thorough washing prompted by his reaction to the Advantix may have been what caused his owner to notice the lump/lesion. The fact that he's a "sheep dog mix" suggests he has long hair. The owner may not have noticed it before under his fur.

If it was caused by the Advantix treatment, it seems most likely that it would show up where the stuff was applied, not on his throat. And, it seems quite unlikely that he would develop cancer from one treatment, and that quickly.

erwins
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  #17  
Old 09 May 2007, 11:23 PM
Ryda Wong, EBfCo. Ryda Wong, EBfCo. is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Neeva View Post
In any event, I'm just glad there isn't much of a flea problem in Colorado
I second that. Moving from Fla., it's such a relief not to have to worry about it. I used advantage in Fla., and it worked great. Although, we must have *some* fleas. How else is the plague being passed around in the P'Dog and other small mammals?

As for the OP, I've never heard of anything like that. I think I would have if it had been a widespread problem.
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  #18  
Old 10 May 2007, 01:38 AM
Lady Neeva
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo. View Post
I second that. Moving from Fla., it's such a relief not to have to worry about it. I used advantage in Fla., and it worked great. Although, we must have *some* fleas. How else is the plague being passed around in the P'Dog and other small mammals?

As for the OP, I've never heard of anything like that. I think I would have if it had been a widespread problem.
Oh I'm sure there are some fleas here... just not too terribly many.

I seem to recall being told or reading that Colorado is to fleas what siberia and alaska are to humans... they can live here, but it's a really challenging enviroment.

As to the OP... not having any experience with skin cancer in dogs, I'm not sure... but I don't think it can grow fast enough to eat a hole in a dog's throat in just a week. I second (third? fourth?) the suggestions that the cancer was already there and just went unnoticed until the reaction to Advantix.
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  #19  
Old 10 May 2007, 02:23 AM
Messiemom
 
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Icon09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenn View Post
Messiemom, in the future, please observe this forum rule:



That means removing the >> as well as signatures and advertisements at the end of the message. I removed the email addresses of your friends for you so spammers can't grab their addresses from your post here.
Oops! Sorry! (I didn't read the rules!) I guess I better find them and start reading!!!
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  #20  
Old 10 May 2007, 06:00 PM
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annabohly annabohly is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiemom View Post
Oops! Sorry! (I didn't read the rules!) I guess I better find them and start reading!!!
Wow, That's some big letters.
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