snopes.com  


Go Back   snopes.com > Urban Legends > Fauxtography

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16 March 2012, 03:10 AM
snopes's Avatar
snopes snopes is offline
 
Join Date: 18 February 2000
Location: California
Posts: 108,882
Icon97 12-week fetus

http://www.snopes.com/photos/medical/12weekfetus.asp
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19 March 2012, 09:51 PM
Chloe's Avatar
Chloe Chloe is offline
 
Join Date: 13 September 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 39,317
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
Baptists (small b), which includes most Xians, believe that baptism is an absolute prerequisite for entry into heaven.
This is inaccurate. Most Protestant Christians believe in salvation by faith. Baptism is a symbol of faith, not a requirement for salvation.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19 March 2012, 09:57 PM
Chloe's Avatar
Chloe Chloe is offline
 
Join Date: 13 September 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 39,317
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo. View Post
I know that Catholics believe a baby must be baptized ASAP in order to go to heaven should it die. I don't know what they teach if a pregnancy is aborted (either intentionally or unintentionally)
There used to be Limbo for them, but that was abolished: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/21/wo...efs-limbo.html

Now there is "prayerful hope" of heaven. I am interested to know if aborted embryos and non-implanted blastocysts continue to develop in heaven, or if they experience eternity as very tiny helpless insentient creatures. And who looks after them. There's at least three per adult, after all.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19 March 2012, 10:04 PM
GenYus234's Avatar
GenYus234 GenYus234 is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 20,070
Default

Maybe heaven recycles their souls into new embryos or blastocysts?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 20 March 2012, 05:04 AM
Missie's Avatar
Missie Missie is offline
 
Join Date: 01 May 2005
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 259
Default

There is a lot of hate in this thread. I'm not going to bother talking in here anymore. I'm not withdrawing because I'm conceding you guys are right, I'm withdrawing because I don't feel like dealing with all of this aggression. Nor do I feel like demonizing a whole set of people that I don't even know.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 20 March 2012, 11:45 AM
Beejtronic's Avatar
Beejtronic Beejtronic is offline
 
Join Date: 28 November 2007
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 2,211
Default

People with opinions not in line with mine = aggression. Got it.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 20 March 2012, 01:02 PM
Chloe's Avatar
Chloe Chloe is offline
 
Join Date: 13 September 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 39,317
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Missie View Post
There is a lot of hate in this thread. I'm not going to bother talking in here anymore. I'm not withdrawing because I'm conceding you guys are right, I'm withdrawing because I don't feel like dealing with all of this aggression. Nor do I feel like demonizing a whole set of people that I don't even know.
There's your problem, then. Get to know some and come back.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 20 March 2012, 03:44 PM
GenYus234's Avatar
GenYus234 GenYus234 is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 20,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Missie View Post
There is a lot of hate in this thread. I'm not going to bother talking in here anymore. I'm not withdrawing because I'm conceding you guys are right, I'm withdrawing because I don't feel like dealing with all of this aggression. Nor do I feel like demonizing a whole set of people that I don't even know.
Can you rule #6 a thread?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 20 March 2012, 04:00 PM
Woofer's Avatar
Woofer Woofer is offline
 
Join Date: 03 September 2005
Location: Panama City Beach, FL
Posts: 601
Wolf

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
Can you rule #6 a thread?
I've seen plenty of people proclaim they're not coming back to threads here.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 20 March 2012, 09:00 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
Join Date: 29 December 2005
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 5,168
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
This is inaccurate. Most Protestant Christians believe in salvation by faith. Baptism is a symbol of faith, not a requirement for salvation.
I believe it is accurate. Protestants make up a smaller percentage of all Xians than do the baptists (again, small b). Catholicism is generally described as making up slightly more than half of all Xians. That alone makes my statement, "most Xians", accurate.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 20 March 2012, 09:14 PM
Chloe's Avatar
Chloe Chloe is offline
 
Join Date: 13 September 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 39,317
Default

So by "baptists with a small b," you are excluding baptists with a big B?

In any case, even the Catholic Church no longer teaches the absolute necessity of actual baptism for salvation. Even back when the concept of Limbo existed, the church still accepted "baptism of desire." So no, not accurate.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 20 March 2012, 09:26 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
Join Date: 29 December 2005
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 5,168
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
So by "baptists with a small b," you are excluding baptists with a big B?

In any case, even the Catholic Church no longer teaches the absolute necessity of actual baptism for salvation. Even back when the concept of Limbo existed, the church still accepted "baptism of desire." So no, not accurate.
Yep, b vs. B. The Catholic church removed the "limbo" stuff in Vatican II in 1965. As I said in my original post, the point is that that is a recent change in a 2,000 year old religion. Even Methodist and Baptist are relatively recent changes in Xianity dating back to less than 1/4th the time that Xianity has existed.

So I believe my original statements were correct, the view that "all life is sacred" being equated with "person-hood starting at conception" is a relatively new concept in Xian's world view. I see no evidence that view existed in the time of Christ. There were no pre-birth religious rites in the early Xian church that I know of. I don't believe Judaism has/had any either.

Last edited by jimmy101_again; 20 March 2012 at 09:32 PM. Reason: relevantly --> relatively
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 20 March 2012, 09:38 PM
Chloe's Avatar
Chloe Chloe is offline
 
Join Date: 13 September 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 39,317
Default

The mistaken concept of life beginning at conception is both new and old in Christianity, jimmy. For its newness, see http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slackti...he-happy-meal/.

For its age, see http://home.earthlink.net/~davidlperry/abortion.htm This significantly predates John Wesley.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 20 March 2012, 09:54 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
Join Date: 29 December 2005
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 5,168
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
The mistaken concept of life beginning at conception is both new and old in Christianity, jimmy. For its newness, see http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slackti...he-happy-meal/.

For its age, see http://home.earthlink.net/~davidlperry/abortion.htm This significantly predates John Wesley.
Second link is interesting, and it confirms that there was no consistent view of a fetus as a human being in the early church. Some said yes and some said no and the concept oscillated between yes and no for Millenia. It is really only since Row v. Wade that some American Xians have fixed on the cenceptus/fetus being a human being.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 20 March 2012, 09:58 PM
Chloe's Avatar
Chloe Chloe is offline
 
Join Date: 13 September 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 39,317
Default

Yes, that is what the first link explains, but it's not a new concept, or even a relatively new concept, as the second link shows.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 21 March 2012, 02:28 PM
Blatherskite's Avatar
Blatherskite Blatherskite is offline
 
Join Date: 06 February 2006
Location: Salford, UK
Posts: 3,465
Default

Here is the possible source for the model of the fetus. These models are made to be provided for anti-abortion causes; they are not medical models and they aren't strictly accurate.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 21 March 2012, 08:43 PM
Chloe's Avatar
Chloe Chloe is offline
 
Join Date: 13 September 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 39,317
Default

Because anti-choicers do not find accuracy to work well for them.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 22 March 2012, 12:28 AM
Blatherskite's Avatar
Blatherskite Blatherskite is offline
 
Join Date: 06 February 2006
Location: Salford, UK
Posts: 3,465
Default

In most of the scans of real 12-week old fetuses I've seen, the face of the fetus is still rather - for lack of a better word - 'blobby'. In this model, the artist seems to have given the fetus more defined features, making it look more like a newborn baby. I suspect that's a deliberate attempt to make a 12 week old fetus seem more human, more cute and therefore more sympathetic.

It's a pointless strategy. It pulls on the heart strings of those who are already anti-abortion, but it assumes people wouldn't have abortions if they thought they were carrying something cute or that nobody would bring themselves to abort anything with human features. Nobody's going to look at models like these and go 'Oh, that's a fetus? I thought it would look like a puff of smoke! Well in that case, I'm cancelling my abortion!'.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 20 April 2012, 07:08 PM
StillandSilent StillandSilent is offline
 
Join Date: 30 November 2005
Location: Morganton, NC
Posts: 298
Default

I miscarried at 12 weeks. I'm 100% sure of the date of conception, and it was 12 weeks and 2 days when I lost my pregnancy.

What I saw bore a resemblence to that thing, but was much less defined. It didn't look like a baby. It didn't even really look like what I thought a fetus would look like. It was just...not to be too gross, but it looked like a 4 year old had sculpted what they thought a fetus should look like out of playdoh.

I will say, however, that I'm almost positive that I lost my fetus due to a genetic problem that could have caused the fetus to be deformed. I declined testing, but I know the father had the disorder, and it can present in many differnet ways.

That was my expereince, YMMV
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 20 April 2012, 07:27 PM
pinqy pinqy is offline
 
Join Date: 20 February 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 11,255
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beejtronic View Post
I'm not following you here. Anti-abortionists want to make it impossible for pregnant women to obtain an abortion. This removes those women's ability to choose whether to end their pregnancy or not. How is this not anti-choice?
Because it assumes that it is a valid option with either decision being morally equal. Extreme example, no one would call someone against domestic violence "anti-choice" because it denies people the choice of whether or not to beat their spouse. The reason is that the majority of people don't consider beating your spouse to be a desirable option.

And if we don't consider beating your spouse to be a valid choice, how on earth could you think people who consider abortion to be murder or equivalent to murder or otherwise "a very bad thing" to accept it as a valid choice? Therefore it is disingenuous to refer to them as anti-choice.

Interestingly, there certainly are people in favor of corporal punishment for their children to consider the government anti-choice for not allowing them the choice of whether or not to beat their children.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Week Without God Magdalene Glurge Gallery 28 24 September 2011 02:43 AM
One-eyed unborn shark fetus Jenn Fauxtography 0 01 July 2011 05:10 PM
Fetus Soup (disturbing images) Jenn Fauxtography 0 18 August 2009 03:02 AM
Fetus autopsy? Halfmad Fauxtography 13 07 October 2007 01:36 AM
Cook your fetus in the jacuzzi? Moon Medical 18 31 July 2007 07:23 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.