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  #21  
Old 01 December 2011, 06:03 PM
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Should animals be stunned before slaughter?

I would like to see any meat that comes from a non-prestunned animal labelled as such. I certainly do not want to unknowingly consume meat from a non-prestunned animal (I already insist on free-range (or fresh roadkill)). That would allow consumers to vote with their buying power. As the comments on that article state, the religious rules about sharp knives and exsanguination were considered humane and healthy at the time they were introduced. The world has changed a great deal since then and IMO it's the religions that need to move with the times and adopt modern humane standards instead of perpetuating standards that were humane by historical standards and which are no longer considered the humane option.
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  #22  
Old 01 December 2011, 06:19 PM
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I agree. But I'm not holding my breath.
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  #23  
Old 01 December 2011, 06:49 PM
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It is amazing how stupid people can be who are racist.

Using the term "Halal" for meat that some Muslims (not all) eat is a misnomer. Halal is anything that is permitted to Muslims. Sex (within marriage of course) is Halal.

The term for meat slaughtered the required Muslim way is Zabiha. This site states that Jews do not say God's name over the animal while it is slaughtered, in which case it would not be consider Zibiha.

MG
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  #24  
Old 02 December 2011, 03:06 AM
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Theme Icon Pamela Geller Discovers Muslim Thanksgiving Turkey Plot

Pamela Geller is now on the warpath against Thanksgiving turkey jihad. The fact that Butterball may have halal turkeys is a real problem for her. In fact, the lead to the article on her site calls this possibility “an outrage” which she will fight, and includes a call for a boycott of the company.

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php...d-thanksgiving
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  #25  
Old 02 December 2011, 07:06 AM
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The problem with Geller attacking the method of halal slaughter, thereby attacking the method of kosher slaughter at the same time has been pointed out (among others in the article that snopes linked).

The other point Geller et al. are attacking is the fact that there is a prayer to Allah said with every animal killed in the halal way.
Quote:
Halal slaughter involves cutting the trachea, the esophagus, and the jugular vein, and letting the blood drain out while saying “Bismillah allahu akbar”—in the name of Allah the greatest. Many people refuse to eat it on religious grounds. Many Christians, Hindus or Sikhs and Jews find it offensive to eat meat slaughtered according to Islamic ritual
That confuses me. If you don't believe in the power of prayer, any prayer said over the slaughter shouldn't be a problem. If you do believe in the power of prayer, shouldn't the (Christian or Jewish) prayer you say over your meal be strong enough to counteract the Muslim prayer said during slaughter? Why don't you trust your faith to be stronger than the Muslim one? Especially if the prayer said during slaughter is probably muttered matter-of-factly by a man doing his job, while your prayer at the dinner table is heartfelt and meaningful - or isn't it?
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  #26  
Old 02 December 2011, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Enrico View Post
The problem with Geller attacking the method of halal slaughter, thereby attacking the method of kosher slaughter at the same time has been pointed out (among others in the article that snopes linked).
There isn't necessarily any logical inconsistency there. Many Jews don't keep kosher, and those who don't are certainly entitled to object to kosher slaughter methods for the same reasons non-Jews might.

Again, Geller's objections to possibly halal Butterball turkeys are ridiculous, and she's a bigoted ass. But I don't think the similarity between kosher and halal slaughter methods can be assumed to be relevant to this story simply because Geller is Jewish.
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  #27  
Old 02 December 2011, 02:44 PM
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I think the issue with the similarity between halal (zabiha?) slaughter and kosher slaughter is that Geller isn't complaining that Judaism is being "forced" on good Christians because their turkey dinner turns out to have been killed in a kosher manner. She only complains about the sneaky Muslims insinuating themselves by sneaking halal meat into America's food supply.
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  #28  
Old 02 December 2011, 02:45 PM
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Agreed, but that's not what Don Enrico said.
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  #29  
Old 02 December 2011, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Enrico View Post
That confuses me. If you don't believe in the power of prayer, any prayer said over the slaughter shouldn't be a problem. If you do believe in the power of prayer, shouldn't the (Christian or Jewish) prayer you say over your meal be strong enough to counteract the Muslim prayer said during slaughter? Why don't you trust your faith to be stronger than the Muslim one? Especially if the prayer said during slaughter is probably muttered matter-of-factly by a man doing his job, while your prayer at the dinner table is heartfelt and meaningful - or isn't it?
Agreed, and what's more, I am somewhat baffled by what a prayer from another religion could possibly do to harm me anyway. As a Christian or a Jew, either I believe Muslims pray to the same God I do, which I do believe, in which case there is no issue as a prayer to God would be harmless. Or I would have to believe they pray to a different God, which would necessarily mean from a Christian or Jewish standpoint they are praying to an non-existant entity, since Christians and Jews believe there is only one God. So then that prayer would be meaningless and harmless. So we're good either way, right?
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  #30  
Old 02 December 2011, 03:00 PM
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It seems that some Christians believe that God is very petty and/or a major sea lawyer when it comes to stuff like this. Maybe they think that eating food that was prayed to another god violates the 1st or 3rd Commandments.
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  #31  
Old 02 December 2011, 03:12 PM
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Slitting the throat is, as far as I know, the usual way to slaughter poultry (unless you do it yourself by cutting off the head), be it halal, haram, kosher or whatever.
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  #32  
Old 02 December 2011, 03:22 PM
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Are poultry ever stunned before slaughter? That seems to be the issue with cattle (see discussion above).

Re: prayers of another faith, IMU that some people believe when Muslims pray to Allah, they are praying to false god or even to Satan. I don't know how that's supposed to harm a Jew or Christian who eats meat that has been prayed over that way, though.
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  #33  
Old 02 December 2011, 03:30 PM
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Yes, poultry are stunned, generally by running them through a "stun bath." Swedish law, unlike the US and UK, makes no exception to animal cruelty laws for "God said it was ok."
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  #34  
Old 02 December 2011, 03:48 PM
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Honestly, kosher meat seems to be about twice the price of non-kosher meat and has "kosher" stamped all over it. Wouldn't halal meat be the same way? Is she not understanding this is a self-limiting practice? Only those who want to keep kosher or halal would be willing to pay a premium for it.

And it's not like your average kosher turkey is thrown in with your average frozen Butterball. In my admittedly limited experience, kosher butcher counters and bins are separate from non-kosher butcher counters. Wouldn't that be the same for halal?

I realize logic is not Geller's strong point. But this is really stupid, even for her. If you stop and think about it for 5 seconds, you should realize you can't be slipped kosher or halal turkeys. No business in it right mind would give up that much profit margin just to irritate political blowhards.
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  #35  
Old 02 December 2011, 04:05 PM
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The article claims that there's a surplus of halal turkeys, so presumably Butterball is selling them as regular turkeys at a loss to keep them from going to waste entirely. I don't really think that's likely to happen on any significant scale though. Why wouldn't they just sell the "extra" halal turkeys as turkey parts? They're frozen, do they need to be eaten by Christmas?
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  #36  
Old 02 December 2011, 04:26 PM
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"Surplus" turkeys usually end up donated to soup kitchens AFTER various holidays. Additionally, Butterball would not be the one with surplus turkeys. That would be the problem of the end-line retailer, who is the one donating, marking down, etc. Also, frozen turkeys can be safely held for up to a year in deep freeze (0F or below). So Butterball can usually hang onto their excess, scale back production, and send it out over the next few months.
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  #37  
Old 02 December 2011, 04:28 PM
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I think most of what Geller writes only makes sense if you approach it with the assumption that there's a powerful, shadowy Muslim conspiracy dominating American life and working to persecute non-Muslims. Some of it doesn't even make sense then.
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  #38  
Old 02 December 2011, 04:38 PM
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LOL. Even if you accept there is some shadowy Muslim conspiracy, would they even bother with turkey? I mean, how exactly do you advance your agenda if no one knows there is even an agenda. This is a bit like making chocolate cake with organic ingredients, feeding it to your friends, and then declaring you've turned them all onto organic foods. No, wait, even that makes more sense. Nothing about this supposed "Butterball conspiracy" makes sense. Asking a multinational corporation to go against its own best interests in order to trick people into eating something they already eat but not telling anyone because it's a conspiracy but because they're eating halal so now we're all Muslim? It makes my brain hurt.
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  #39  
Old 02 December 2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Jay View Post
You know what I realized? Air is halal. Pam Geller, stop breathing right now!!
Maybe yours is, but a few strips of bacon on my humidifier and bam!, mine isn't. Protected at last..


As for the OP, all kinds of absurd.
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