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  #41  
Old 24 May 2011, 03:01 AM
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A Turtle Named Mack A Turtle Named Mack is offline
 
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Missy, that is probably mostly a matter of people who are making a decent income in the black market. That is one of many reasons I have long advocated that we turn from cash transfers to feeding hungry people - no need for means testing really, if all you get at any one time is a single healthy meal.
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  #42  
Old 24 May 2011, 03:22 AM
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Cash benefits: In MI. you work for them. If you only work 36 hours a week then you work for the state for those 4 hours you're short full time. An example: you volunteer at Mel Trotter Ministries, a re-sale shop that trains people to work and uses the money they make from their shops for...I dunno ministries. I have no problem with people here using their cash benefits for what ever they choose as they work for that money.

We do have the odd drug dealer that gets food benefits 'cause they don't have "income." The fact is we cannot (I guess I should really say 'should not' because it's obvious that we can because it's obvious where the power is) punish hard working and/or down on their luck people for the dishonestly of a few. I know these words fall on deaf ears in some quarters, but that is the truth.

Some states are worse than others in administration. That is the fault of the state not of the people who need help.

The graft, corruption, and real theft is at a much higher level than any welfare "cheat" can ever even imagine.
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  #43  
Old 24 May 2011, 03:24 AM
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I recall seeing grocery receipts that said "food stamps" even if you didn't pay using food stamps. Possibly any debit card registers as a food debit card even if it's a Visa. My mom suggested the reason was enough people in town were on food stamps to where it's a safe assumption.

Comments like the OP are part of why I'm so hesitant to apply for food stamps. I probably qualify for some assistance, but since I'm not starving to death without them, I know some people would be judgmental and nasty. Certain family members who complain all the time about people on government aid suddenly think it's ok if I do it (because I'm working and don't have children?). I feel like they're being hypocritical.
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  #44  
Old 24 May 2011, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
That is one of many reasons I have long advocated that we turn from cash transfers to feeding hungry people - no need for means testing really, if all you get at any one time is a single healthy meal.
It seems like it would cost more to run a meal-providing program than it would to keep the system the way it is and accept some fraud. How would your program eliminate fraud? And how would you make sure people who needed the meals could get to them 3 times I day? Or even once a day.
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  #45  
Old 24 May 2011, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by missy_pooh_1997 View Post
People who are dress to the nines,with hair and nails done,designer clothes,nice jewelry new cell phones etc using link.
So people who are poor and need food stamps aren't allowed to look and dress nicely or own a phone?

You can get designer closes cheap at thrift stores, or maybe somebody gave them the clothes as a gift, or they got the clothes before they were down on hard times. These people might be capable of doing their own hair and nails in a professional manner or have a family member or friend doing it for them for free.

And a phone is pretty much a necessity, and it's often cheaper and more convenient to just have a cell phone rather than a land line.

It's pretty presumptuous to assume that these people don't deserve the benefits or don't have their priorities straight based on outward appearances.
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  #46  
Old 24 May 2011, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starla View Post
It seems like it would cost more to run a meal-providing program than it would to keep the system the way it is and accept some fraud. How would your program eliminate fraud? And how would you make sure people who needed the meals could get to them 3 times I day? Or even once a day.
On the plus, paying people to prepare and provide three meals a day for the people who currently get assistance would probably end unemployment in America.

But, as you say, it's still going to cost a lot more money.
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  #47  
Old 24 May 2011, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloLlama View Post
So people who are poor and need food stamps aren't allowed to look and dress nicely or own a phone?
They wouldn't even be allowed to cook and eat meals as a family, if ATNM had his way:

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
That is one of many reasons I have long advocated that we turn from cash transfers to feeding hungry people - no need for means testing really, if all you get at any one time is a single healthy meal.
ETA: I'm confused. I thought conservatives believed the government needed to spend less money, not more?
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  #48  
Old 24 May 2011, 02:01 PM
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And if food stamp people are going hog wild with your taxpayer dollars, can you IMAGINE what people who got $25 and $30 million bonuses with TARP funds got? I bet it was better than some low rent acrylic nails and an iPhone!
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  #49  
Old 24 May 2011, 02:01 PM
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I think cost is the reason why more isn't done. It shouldn't be hard at all to build a system to collect what is purchased by each recipient. The problem is the cost of such a system, plus the man-power required to analyze the data and act on the results probably would cose far more than the total amount of actual fraud.
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  #50  
Old 24 May 2011, 02:03 PM
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Tsk, Tsk

Here ia another question. Why should the state pick up the tab, for deposits on the cans, so they then can be returned for cash?

Also remember the other problem with this person....they are a litter bug!!
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  #51  
Old 24 May 2011, 02:16 PM
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A very good point, Beach, and one that I think is frequently lost in an unhelpful emotional reaction to the idea of fraud.

Ana, .
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  #52  
Old 24 May 2011, 03:45 PM
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For real though, several people in this thread have expressed contempt and disgust at people they believe are living it up on government benefits.

Why is the same contempt not heaped upon top execs who took massive bonuses from TARP funds? Literally thousands of American families could have been fed on food stamps from a single executive bonus.

Why are food stamps recipients so looked down upon while this money, definitely going to people who neither need nor deserve it, has passed comparably unchecked?

Never once have I heard someone say they wanted to give a Bank of America exec one meal doled out at a time so they don't spend the money on expensive cocaine. Never once have I heard someone suggest the executive team at Chase be subjected to drug testing or other demeaning conditions to qualify for these massive bonuses. No one has proposed restricting the use of bailout funds or other corporate welfare to necessities and excepting things like cat or dog food and toilet paper.

Why do we feel so differently about these two forms of "handout?"
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  #53  
Old 24 May 2011, 03:50 PM
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A Turtle Named Mack A Turtle Named Mack is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
They wouldn't even be allowed to cook and eat meals as a family, if ATNM had his way:
Nothing I have said would prevent anyone who chose from cooking and eating meals at home together. I have said that if the government is to provide the food, we could do it better and more efficiently by providing actual meals, and while this would not have people cooking together, it certainly would not prevent families from eating together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
ETA: I'm confused. I thought conservatives believed the government needed to spend less money, not more?
Just because I recognize the inanity of leftist policies does not make me a conservative. I think through all policies for the effects, and disagree with those that are destructive to the meeting of people’s long-term well-being.

As for the cost of my proposal, I ran the numbers once, and the cost of all food-providing programs would have provided very nearly the price of a typical salad/taco/pizza/or breakfast bar for all the anticipated meals to be served. I think with a much higher volume and bulk-purchasing, the meals could be provided at a lower cost yet, while providing also community day care centers and such benefits as health insurance for the employees (displacing Medicaid costs to improve the net bottom line).

I envision a large number of cafeterias which provide meals to anyone who shows up. (Money saved by avoiding the administration of means-testing, verification and distribution of funds – but any program will need an auditor’s and/or inspector’s office to minimize fraud). The meals would be wholesome, and accommodate a range of dietary needs: low salt, vegetarian, etc. – kosher cafeterias or sections might be provided in areas with sufficient demand. Where space is available – say in schools no longer used as schools, additional programs could be provided, such as for continuing education, clubs and community activities, cultural activities (dances, concerts, sing-alongs, etc.), sports and games, political groups, religious groups, etc. (no forced attendance to any of these, so accommodating by providing use of available space is not ‘entanglement’).

I would anticipate that at first, those who arrived would be those who really had trouble affording meals for themselves and their families. But I would hope that in time the community programs would attract all classes of people, and that the cafeterias would become true community centers filling the role that community activities such as quilting bees, church socials, bowling leagues, town meetings, etc. used to play in earlier times.
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  #54  
Old 24 May 2011, 03:57 PM
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But the government isn't providing food. The government provides funds for people to purchase food.
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  #55  
Old 24 May 2011, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
Nothing I have said would prevent anyone who chose from cooking and eating meals at home together.
Apart from, oh, LACK OF MONEY. You know, the reason they get food stamps in the first place?

(I stopped reading at this point. When your opening point is so badly thought out as this one, I tend to find I have better things to do than read on).
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  #56  
Old 24 May 2011, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ana Ng View Post
Why do we feel so differently about these two forms of "handout?"
Do we? I think almost no one likes bankers, and I recall that the bank bailouts were extremely unpopular with some (including me).
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  #57  
Old 24 May 2011, 04:06 PM
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Lainie Lainie is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
I would anticipate that at first, those who arrived would be those who really had trouble affording meals for themselves and their families. But I would hope that in time the community programs would attract all classes of people, and that the cafeterias would become true community centers filling the role that community activities such as quilting bees, church socials, bowling leagues, town meetings, etc. used to play in earlier times.
Right, because people who aren't poor just love to hang around with poor people.
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  #58  
Old 24 May 2011, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Troodon View Post
Do we? I think almost no one likes bankers, and I recall that the bank bailouts were extremely unpopular with some (including me).
But, as Ana noted, no one is calling for drug testing of bankers or suggesting that the government should limit what bankers can spend their TARP-funded wages on.

(The Daily Fail over here was whining that a prominent UK banker may have spent part of his pension from a now state-owned bank on getting a super injunction. I rolled my eyes at that just as much as I do at the conditions imposed on food stamp recipients)
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  #59  
Old 24 May 2011, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Troodon View Post
Do we? I think almost no one likes bankers, and I recall that the bank bailouts were extremely unpopular with some (including me).
I realize this. But the level of scorn and talk of "entitlement" seems to be reserved en masse for those on food stamps. And to the other points, no legislators have even proposed, much less enacted, such intrusive impositions on the wealthy receiving welfare. Just the poor.
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  #60  
Old 24 May 2011, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ana Ng View Post
I realize this. But the level of scorn and talk of "entitlement" seems to be reserved en masse for those on food stamps. And to the other points, no legislators have even proposed, much less enacted, such intrusive impositions on the wealthy receiving welfare. Just the poor.
This is a thread on foodstamps. I would expect people to be talking more about food stamps than bailouts, wouldn't you?

I don't think that discussion of one topic means that people have no feelings or are okay about every other government program.
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