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#1
15 April 2007, 09:06 PM
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Striped insignia
Comment: I work as a civilian for the Marine Corps and am a member of the
Air National Guard. I was told by a Marine the reason the Marine and Army stripes wings face down and the Air Force and Navy wings face up is the Marines and Army fought the American Indians. 
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#2
15 April 2007, 09:20 PM
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I'm probably wrong but aren't wings the insignia awarded to pilots?
Did the Army and the Marines have many combat aircraft when they were fighting the American Indians?
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#4
16 April 2007, 05:26 AM
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I don't think there's any basis for the legend.
For one thing, the US Army often wore chevrons "point down" well into the 19th century, well after the Army had done a fair amount of Indian fighting. For another...as late as the 1960s the US Army still had chevrons pointing down. The rank of SP8 & 9 had "points down". Admittadly, they probably never fought Indians either but still... According to this website the chevron directions didn't become standardized until roughly 1903...most of the Indian fighting was doubtless done by then  The website is operated by the US military so seems trustworthy.According to a slightly less reputable website, the naval enlisted ranks didn't start until 1841 and was, initially, an eagle with an anchor for a petty officer. It wasn't until 1885 that petty officers received grades, and that required something to differentiate them...chevrons were already in use with the Army, so it doesn't seem a stretch to add them to the naval uniform...and from a simple aesthetic point of view it makes sense to have them inverted under the eagle...you wouldn't want them over the eagle now, would you? And an eagle balanced on an anchor balance on a point would both take up too much room and look rather awkward. As for Air Force...I dunno, seems like the down-point chevrons make them look like wings. Lastly...the US Navy did, indeed, fight the Indians. Check out the Navy website and you can see that on November 22nd 1856 poor Coxswain Englebrecht died at Port Gamble, WA in a skirmish with a native American. There are others, but I just loved the name. A more sober example would be the 8 sailors killed in the 7 years of the Seminole War. edited for some spelling errors.
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#5
16 April 2007, 05:58 PM
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Well, if you believe 'The DaVinci Code', the upward-pointing chevron is a phallic symbol, and the downward-pointing vee (chalice) is a feminine symbol. That's because the Army and Marines are all dicks, and the Navy and Air Force are all...(um, cough...).
 But seriously, folks. Here's a good link. It seems that the chevrons flipped around several times, based on the whim of the Army: 1821: Chevrons adopted, point up 1833: Points down 1847: Points up 1851: Points down 1905: Points up
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There's a widow in sleepy Chester, Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun; And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri, Who tells how the work was done.
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#6
16 April 2007, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
EXTRA
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And always remember....when life hands you Lemons, ask for tequila and salt and call me over !!!!! 
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#7
16 April 2007, 06:36 PM
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Delta V - you officially rock!
I can offer another UL to support the first, though!! The Army and Marines have their chevrons point up, as they "take land", hence, the chevrons resemble mountains... /\ - /\ The Navy and Air Force have their chevrons have theirs point down, to resemble the hulls of vessels - both floating on water as well as air. \/ - \/ It was just something that occured to me - and is not based on fact or anything other than a vivid imagination. 'Ware the UL's!! 
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Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...
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#8
17 April 2007, 01:39 PM
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I keep thinking of the scene in 'Good Morning Vietnam' where Sgt Major Dickerson points to the stripes on his sleeve and asks A1C Cronauer, "Do you know what three up and three down means?"
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#9
17 April 2007, 01:51 PM
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Until and during most of the Spanish-American War the Army and Marines wore chevrons point down. I know from a military history exhibit that it was the Spanish-American War that caused the change, I just don't remember why.
ETA: The change was made in 1902, but I still can't find out why. pinqy Last edited by pinqy; 17 April 2007 at 02:06 PM.
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#10
17 April 2007, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
I believe the Air Force enlisted rank was chosen by Gen. Vandenburg in 1948 after asking a group of 150 enlisted men to pick their favorite from a number of choices. The insignia is meant to appear as wings and to reflect the insignia on US aircraft.
__________________
There's a widow in sleepy Chester, Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun; And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri, Who tells how the work was done.
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#11
17 April 2007, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
__________________
My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling, but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. - Pooh Bear
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#12
18 April 2007, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Root was the Secretary of War after the Spanish-American war. That war revealed enormous problems in the structure & organization of the US Army and Elihu was brought in as a reformer. He did a remarkable job, and for all intents and purposes the present structure of the current US Army is his creation...at least more than anyone else. His changes included exanding West Point, implementing a modern professional development system, Command & General Staff College, the War College, the General Staff etc. etc. etc. Busy guy, but there was a lot reforming that needed to happen. Changing the insignia was apparently in there somewhere as well. It isn't uncommon with big changes to include fairly cosmetic ones as well. In today's Army I've been part of such important conversations as where the American flag should go on the uniform and facing which direction Sam
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#13
18 April 2007, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Now if I can just keep the branch/nametape velcro from sticking to my shoulder velcro and going "shiik, shiik" whenever I move. I predict the future Army uniform will consist entirely of velcro, with velcro-on pockets, so you can stick stuff where ever you want it.
__________________
There's a widow in sleepy Chester, Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun; And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri, Who tells how the work was done.
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#14
19 April 2007, 01:19 AM
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In reality, the Air Force rank structure, and insignia are all based on crap.
You have stripes pointing up and stripes pointing down. The more stripes you have pointing down, the more crap you catch, until you begin to get stripes pointing up. The more stripes pointing up, the more crap rolls off and is caught by those below you. So, a Chief Master Sergeant has 5 down and 3 up. A lot of crap gets thrown at chiefs, but most of it rolls off to be caught by the Senior Master Sergeants. Seniors get all of the crap that rolls off of the chiefs, but the two stripes up protect them from most of it. They let it slide to the Master Sergeants. Master Sergeants didn't used to have any upward stripes, and they caught a lot of crap. They got together and decided that if they had just one stripe pointing up, they would catch a lot less crap... and so it became that the MSgt had one stripe pointing up and was able to deflect more crap, which hits the Technical Segeant. The Technical Sergeant has 5 stripes pointing down. They catch a lot of crap. They get as much crap as a MSgt, but the crap doesn't roll off of a TSgt. The TSgt has to divvy out the crap to his Staff Sergeants and Senior Airmen. The Staffs and Senior Airmen handle most of the crap, but there is always some left over. It is handed off to the airmen 1st class, airmen and airmen basics. The A1C's and Airmen take care of the remaining crap and then wait for more, because they have been in just long enough to understand the politics of crap, and they know that more crap is coming. The Airman basic stands with a glassy look in his eye because he has never seen so much crap. It's okay, though... since they have no stripes, the crap just hits them and slides to the ground. In practice, it works like this... A Chief walks in and says, "There's crap on the floor." To which the Senior replies, "Yep. That's a lot of crap. We should do something about that" The MSgt exclaims "OMG!!! THERE'S CRAP ON THE FLOOR! WE MUST GET RID OF THIS CRAP SO I CAN MAKE SENIOR!!!" The TSgt sighs... "Crap. There's crap on the floor again. Let's clean this up" and then he goes to get coffee The SSgts look at the Sra, the A1c's and the airmen... finally focus on the Airmen Basic and say "go get a shovel."
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#15
19 April 2007, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Sam
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#16
20 April 2007, 07:56 AM
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A tip for the Velcro--I mean, hook-and-pile fastening system--nametapes: Line up the medial end of the nametape with the end of the strip on the blouse, then work towards the arm. The strip on the blouse is longer than the nametape, and this usually keeps the lateral end of the nametape secure and off your sleeve.
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...and then God created a race that dwelt in caves and spoke in riddles, and these he called Military Intelligence.
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#17
20 April 2007, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
On another note...it's been said the rank insignia for Major and Lieutenant Colonel date back to Roman tradition.
__________________
There's a widow in sleepy Chester, Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun; And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri, Who tells how the work was done.
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#18
20 April 2007, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
__________________
...and then God created a race that dwelt in caves and spoke in riddles, and these he called Military Intelligence.
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