Did NASA nuke Jupiter?

Interesting speculation from the tin foil hat land of Enterprise Mission:

http://www.enterprisemission.com/NukingJupiter.html

Wow. Someone needs to write a book about imploding Jupiter to form another sun. It could be something wonderful....

I know, "Stop Doug, please stop...."

[Silas Sparkhammer]

What's kind of neat about stellar astronomy is that there are really only four equations dealing with stars. Fairly simple ones, too, such as the ideal gas law, where pressure times volume is proportional to temperature, or the law of gravitation, where the attraction is proportional to the inverse square of the distance, etc. Undergraduate college math: not super-easy, but not super-hard. And this level of math completely trashes the notion that Jupiter could become a star. The temperature and pressure at the center just aren't high enough.

I really despise people who use the language of science, but who refuse to take the extra step of comprehension. I'm not saying that everyone here should learn to solve differential equations, but at very least, they should not make pronunciamentos about the facts that contradict what the science actually says.

(I'm reminded of the Young Earth Creationists who say, "Niagra Falls are moving upstream about an inch a year. This means, if the earth were really five billion years old, the St. Lawrence River once would have had to go four times around the world!")

Silas

[Delta-V]

Well, there are more complex equations when you delve deep into the physics of stellar evolution (I took several classes in stellar astrophysics as electives). But the ones governing minumum mass are fairly simple. Jupiter is about 0.001 solar masses, and the minimum mass needed to maintain ignition is on the order of 0.1 solar masses.

The small plutonium pellets used in Galileo aren't even close to critical mass. No matter how much pressure they encounter, there isn't enough mass to sustain a reaction - the neutrons just escape instead of colliding with other nuclei.

On top of that, unless Jupiter's hydrogen is abnomally heavy, it won't produce a fusion reaction anyway (aside from other thermonuclear bomb-making details I won't go in to). Without Deuterium or Tritium, it won't work, and certainly won't be self-sustaning. There was a similar arguement about the Trinity test igniting Earth's atmospheric hydrogen (which is predominately water vapor), and Teller published a paper on why that can't happen.

[ASL]

I think the "conspiracy theorists" are on to something. Not even The White House denies that the President has stood by and done nothing as Jupiter is bombarded with untold amounts of hazardous radiation.

[Dreams of Thinking Machines]

Originally Posted by Delta-V

Well, there are more complex equations when you delve deep into the physics of stellar evolution (I took several classes in stellar astrophysics as electives). But the ones governing minumum mass are fairly simple. Jupiter is about 0.001 solar masses, and the minimum mass needed to maintain ignition is on the order of 0.1 solar masses.

The small plutonium pellets used in Galileo aren't even close to critical mass. No matter how much pressure they encounter, there isn't enough mass to sustain a reaction - the neutrons just escape instead of colliding with other nuclei.

On top of that, unless Jupiter's hydrogen is abnomally heavy, it won't produce a fusion reaction anyway (aside from other thermonuclear bomb-making details I won't go in to). Without Deuterium or Tritium, it won't work, and certainly won't be self-sustaning. There was a similar arguement about the Trinity test igniting Earth's atmospheric hydrogen (which is predominately water vapor), and Teller published a paper on why that can't happen.

But isn't Jupiter also well known for it's magical properties?

[Eddylizard]

We're at war with Jupiter now? What did they do? How will they retaliate?

[snopes]

Originally Posted by Eddylizard

We're at war with Jupiter now? What did they do? How will they retaliate?

No blood for Ganymede!

- snopes

[Troberg]

We're at war with Jupiter now? What did they do? How will they retaliate?

We have always been at war with Jupiter, and that's doubleplusgood.

[Eddylizard]

Originally Posted by Troberg

We have always been at war with Jupiter, and that's doubleplusgood.

I'm going to have to increase your chocolate ration for next month to half of what it was this month.

[Muncle]

Originally Posted by Eddylizard

I'm going to have to increase your chocolate ration for next month to half of what it was this month.

Brilliant.

Why couldn't I have found this a couple of months ago? It would have made a fantastic presentation to my Astronomy class. Much better than asteroid names.

And if you think the prof may have protested, you didn't see some of the other presentations.

[Penny]

Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer

And this level of math completely trashes the notion that Jupiter could become a star. The temperature and pressure at the center just aren't high enough.

My understanding of the article was that the suggestion that it would ignite Jupiter as a sun was just a crackpot theory that started the thought process - in fact, he even states that he considers the idea "well beyond the fringe". From my limited understanding of the terminology, I can't find anywhere in the actual article where he tries to claim that this is what occurred. He only seems to be claiming that the conditions in the Jovian atmosphere may have triggered a delayed nuclear explosion, producing a cloud of soot that was visible from Earth.

Is this plausible? I wouldn't have the foggiest.

[Tantalus Prime]

The small plutonium pellets used in Galileo aren't even close to critical mass. No matter how much pressure they encounter, there isn't enough mass to sustain a reaction - the neutrons just escape instead of colliding with other nuclei.

For those interested in an in depth breakdown, read the Bad Astronomy Blog.

[rlobinske]

It figures that Hoagland would wander off unto something else after his "Mars Face" went bust.

[Sebbenth]

Originally Posted by Doug4.7

Wow. Someone needs to write a book about imploding Jupiter to form another sun. It could be something wonderful....

I know, "Stop Doug, please stop...."

Ahem.... hasn't it already been done by Arthur Clarke?

[Wicked Tinkerbell]

Originally Posted by Sebbenth

Ahem.... hasn't it already been done by Arthur Clarke?

Yup. That's where the "something wonderful...." reference came from.

Wicked "Hello, Dave" T.

[Troberg]

Apart from the obvious impossibility of it, why on earth would NASA want a second sun in the solar system. Most likely, it would make life as we know it on earth impossible, as we would get a real case of global warming.

I wonder why Clarke never reflected on that?

[Graham2001]

Phil Plait (The Bad Astronomer) has a page dealing with this particular story (See :http://tinyurl.com/ngjj), in the simplest of terms, it just doesn't work...

Sadly someone is now claiming that NASA is going to use Cassini to do the same thing to Saturn. (See this thread:http://tinyurl.com/33jfgk).

[Silas Sparkhammer]

Originally Posted by Troberg

Apart from the obvious impossibility of it, why on earth would NASA want a second sun in the solar system. Most likely, it would make life as we know it on earth impossible, as we would get a real case of global warming.

I wonder why Clarke never reflected on that?

Actually, no, it wouldn't contribute meaningfully to warming -- not the "mini-sun" that Clarke described Jupiter becoming. It would, instead, mostly be a source of "moonlight." It would reduce crime, increase productive working hours, etc. etc.

Plants would adapt, I think, without too much difficulty.

Fritz Leiber, in his novel "The Wanderer," got rid of the moon. With no moon, all we would have are the smallish solar tides. Many tidal plants and animals would become extinct...but (probably) not so many as to cause a wave of mass extinctions.

And, of course, a mild annoyance for Earth was life itself for Europa...

Bad science, but great Sci Fi!

Silas

P.S. A friend of mine travelled to Sri Lanka on a business trip, and got his photo taken sitting by Arthur C. Clarke's side. I am now in the process of gnawing my own ankles to the bone in abject envy!

[Troberg]

Actually, no, it wouldn't contribute meaningfully to warming -- not the "mini-sun" that Clarke described Jupiter becoming.

It was a long time since I read the book, but wasn't Jupiter ignited by increasing its mass with lots of monoliths? Wouldn't that make it a fairly normal sun, although on the smaller end of the scale?

P.S. A friend of mine travelled to Sri Lanka on a business trip, and got his photo taken sitting by Arthur C. Clarke's side. I am now in the process of gnawing my own ankles to the bone in abject envy!

I know the feeling. I tried for a long time to get my book publisher sister to become the Swedish publisher for Harlan Ellison (he hasn't published anything in Swedish for over 10 years, so he either lacks a publisher or needs a better one), but she never got around to doing it, and now she has started a writing career instead (I'll notify you all when her books goes outside Scandinavia).