Army Corps of Engineers Not Sure What to Build

[jason13]

Protecting The Big Easy From The Next Big One

Congress has told the corps that its next task is to build up the New Orleans hurricane protection system to shield the city from all but a 100-year storm—a hurricane of a ferocity that would be expected, statistically, to occur only once in a century. Congress has authorized the corps to spend US $5.7 billion to restore the system and achieve 100-year protection, giving it until 2010 to finish.

Three years is not a lot of time to do that kind of job, to put it mildly, but the even bigger problem is that nobody knows yet just what a 100-year storm would look like. Groups responsible for telling the corps how big the waves and storm surges from a 100‑year storm would be, and what kind of mayhem they might cause, are set to report back only about now, in March.

Not only that, but Congress's mandate may not cover the next Katrina -- it may have been a 300-year or 400-year storm.

[Lainie]

I suggest they ask the Dutch, who could probably do it cheaper and faster anyway.

[Elkhound]

Originally Posted by Lainie

I suggest they ask the Dutch, who could probably do it cheaper and faster anyway.

Ditto. If anyone knows how to protect low land from the sea it is the Dutch.

[rangerdog]

I am still curious why it is the ACEs responsibility and why it ever was.

[Lainie]

Originally Posted by rangerdog

I am still curious why it is the ACEs responsibility and why it ever was.

Same reason flood control projects and wetland preservation/restoration are the ACEs responsibility, I guess. Of course, I don't know what that reason is.

[Eddylizard]

I could be missing the mark, but isn't it just cheapness? The ACE are on the government payroll anyway, so if they are free (as in available) the only additional cost is for materials consumables and transport. A contractor on the other hand would charge for labour as well.

[Deepfrydegg]

Originally Posted by rangerdog

I am still curious why it is the ACEs responsibility and why it ever was.

I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time...today), but the Army's providence is (historically) land and land based projects (as compared to the Navy governs water and Airforce governs the Air and Space). ACE is Army's "brain" group to build and design stuff for the Army, in particular, hardened structures like bridges/forts/dams.

Following along that line of logic (or illogic, should I be wrong), ACE would have oversight into protecting New Orleans from Storm/flooding.

That is what I would think.
Of course, it could just be that the ACE was given this power/responsibility by Congress under some Act.

[Majorsam]

Originally Posted by Deepfrydegg

I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time...today), but the Army's providence is (historically) land and land based projects...

One would think so, but you're not thinking historically

The first real school of engineering in the US was a place called West Point. Because of this, many of the Army officers in the good ol' days had engineering degrees, even if they were Cavalry or Infantry officers. Subsequently when the fledgling Republic needed engineers to design dams and canals, they went to the only agency with a stock of engineers and time on their hands...the Army. And once they started, it was hard to stop just because they had the institutional knowledge on a surprising number of canals & dams. Some of the greatest projects in US history have the ACE fingerprints all over it, including the Panama Canal and many of the railroads.

The US has a couple of oddities like this...organizations that if you think aboutit logically shouldn't be responsible for a given assignment and yet have it. The treasury department, for instance, has a police force that does two major things...track down counterfeiters and protect the President. Makes sense, no?

Major Sam
US Corps of Engineers

[Kev]

Originally Posted by rangerdog

I am still curious why it is the ACEs responsibility and why it ever was.

http://www.usace.army.mil/missions/water.html

Army involvement in works "of a civil nature," including water resources, goes back almost to the origins of the U.S. Over the years, as the Nation's needs have changed, so have the Army's Civil Works missions.

At Corps of Engineers Headquarters in Washington, DC, the Directorate of Civil Works oversees the program, with projects located throughout the United States.

Funds for the Civil Works program come from the annual Energy and Water Development Appropriation, not the Defense budget. And many projects also receive cost-sharing funds supplied directly by non-Federal sponsors for specific projects.

The Corps was first called upon to address flood problems along the Mississippi river in the mid- 1800's. We began work on the Mississippi River and Tributaries Flood Control Project in 1928, and the Flood Control Act of 1936 gave the Corps the mission to provide flood protection to the entire country.

[putitinwriting]

I have to admit, as a Floridian I have a strongly negative response to anything regarding the ACE. I mean, between the Cross Florida Barge Canal, cutting St. George Island in half, straightening the Kissimmee River, and other assorted, environment-damaging projects, I can't imagine trusting them to get anything right. But I'm sure that's a biased view.

Originally Posted by Lainie

I suggest they ask the Dutch, who could probably do it cheaper and faster anyway.

Dutch don't deal with hurricanes.....

I like how Congress has given them the price, and how long it should take to build it, but no one has an idea of "what" they need to build....Looks like a job for the IM people....Good evenign Mr. Phelps....

[Dactyl]

Originally Posted by Doug4.7

Dutch don't deal with hurricanes.....

Of course they do. Just not on the magnitude of Hurricane Katrina.

[Don Enrico]

Originally Posted by Dactyl

Of course they do. Just not on the magnitude of Hurricane Katrina.

Since the definition of a hurrican (and a typhoon) is "tropical cyclone", the Dutch don't actually deal with them, being far from the tropical region.

They have to deal with European Windstorms, though. The North Sea flood of 1962, for example, was brought by a severe storm from the North Sea that reached wind speeds of 200 kmh, on scale with the 180 kmh wind speeds of Hurrican Katrina.

Don Enrico

[Dactyl]

Originally Posted by Don Enrico

Since the definition of a hurrican (and a typhoon) is "tropical cyclone", the Dutch don't actually deal with them, being far from the tropical region.

Ok, I stand corrected. Blame the whole 1987/Michael Fish/"Hurricane" for my ignorance.

ETA: Ok after wiki-ing (erm...) The Great Storm of 1987 it seems that although we don't strictly have hurricanes, we do have hurricane force winds which is surely the point, is it not?

[Singing in the Drizzle]

And there would be very little space left in New Orleans were one could live or work.