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  #1  
Old 06 October 2010, 02:16 AM
moonfall moonfall is offline
 
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Default The scientific death of Jesus

My grandmother sent me this. Actually, it's the second glurge she's sent me in the past few days. I'm a little skeptical about some of the "scientific facts" in this one. I've edited the spacing a bit because there were far too many unnecessary spaces in the original.



JESUS DEATH - 60 SECONDS ~~~

60 seconds with God...

For the next 60 seconds, set aside whatever
you're doing and take this opportunity!
Let's see if Satan can stop this...

THE (SCIENTIFIC) DEATH OF JESUS


At the age of 33,
Jesus was condemned to the death penalty.

At the time crucifixion was the "worst" death. Only the worst criminals condemned to be crucified. Yet it was
even more dreadful for Jesus, for unlike other criminals condemned to death by crucifixion Jesus was nailed to the cross by His hands and feet, rather than tied...


Each nail
was 6 to 8 inches long.


The nails
were driven into His wrist. Not
into His palms as is commonly
portrayed. There's a tendon in the wrist that
extends to the shoulder. The Roman guards knew
that when the nails were being hammered into the
Wrist, that tendon would tear and
break, forcing Jesus to use His back
muscles to support himself, so that He could breathe.


Both of His feet
were nailed together. Thus He was forced to
support Himself on the single nail that
impaled His feet to the cross. Jesus could
not support himself with His legs for long because of the pain, so He was forced to alternate between arching His
back and using his legs just to continue to
breath. Imagine the struggle, the pain, the
suffering, the courage.


Jesus endured this
reality for over 3 hours.

Yes,
over 3 hours! Can you imagine this kind of
suffering? A few minutes before He died,
Jesus stopped bleeding. He was simply pouring water
from his wounds.


From common images we see wounds to His hands and feet and even the spear wound to His side...
But do we remember the many wounds
made to his body. A hammer
driving large nails through the wrists, the feet overlapped
and a nail hammered through the arches, then a
Roman guard piercing His side with a spear. And...
before the nails and the spear, Jesus was whipped and
beaten. The whipping was so severe that it tore the
flesh from His body. The beating so horrific that His
face was torn and his beard ripped from His face. The
crown of thorns (two to three inch thorns) cut deeply into His scalp. Most men
would not have survived this torture.

He had no more blood
to bleed out, only water poured from His
wounds. The
human adult body contains about 3.5 liters
(just less than a gallon) of blood.

Jesus poured all 3.5 liters of his blood;
He had three nails hammered into His
members; a crown of thorns on His head and, beyond
that, a Roman soldier who stabbed a spear into His
chest..

All these without
mentioning the humiliation He passed after carrying His own
cross for almost 2 kilometers, while the crowd spat in his
face and threw stones (the cross beam was almost 30 kg of weight, to which His hands were nailed).

Jesus had to endure this experience,
so that you may have free access to God.

So that your sins can be "washed" away.
All of them, with no exception!
Don't ignore this.

JESUS
CHRIST DIED...FOR YOU!

For you, who now read this e-mail.
Do not believe that He only died for others
(those who go to church or for pastors, bishops, etc).


He died for you!
It is easy to e-mail jokes or silly photos,
but when it comes to God,
sometimes we feel ashamed to forward a message about Him on
to others.
We are worried of what they may think.

Accept the reality, the truth, that
JESUS IS THE ONLY SALVATION FOR THE WORLD.

God has special plans for YOU!
Share this with all your friends...
about what He went through to save you.
Really think about it!

May God bless you!

For the next 60 seconds,
set aside what you're doing and take
this opportunity! Let's see if Satan can stop this.

All you have to do
is:

1. Pray for the person who sent this message to you.


2. Send this message to 10 people...More if you wish.


3.That way, 10 people will pray for you
and you will encourage many people
to pray to God for others.


4. Take a moment to appreciate the power of God in your life, as you do what pleases Him.



If you are not ashamed to do this, please, follow Jesus' instructions.
He said (Matthew 10:32 & 33): "Everyone therefore
who acknowledges me before others, I also will acknowledge
before My Father in heaven; but whosoever denies Me
before others, I also will deny before My
Father in heaven".


If you believe,
send this message... But send it only if you believe
in Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior.


Yes, I love God. He
is my source of life and my Savior.
He keeps me alive and safe, both day and night.


Without Him, I am nothing,
but with Him "I can do all things through Him
who strengthens me". Philippians 4:13.



This is the simple proof. If you love God and you are a believer and trust in His salvation through Christ Jesus, send this to all those you love.

"IN GOD WE TRUST"
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  #2  
Old 06 October 2010, 02:44 AM
Michael Cole's Avatar
Michael Cole Michael Cole is offline
 
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Posts: 752
Default

Mostly OK in terms of accuracy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfall View Post

At the age of 33, Jesus was condemned to the death penalty.

At the time crucifixion was the "worst" death. Only the worst criminals condemned to be crucified.
Effectively, non-Roman or Greek citizens guilty of insurrection, sedition or rebellion against Rome

Quote:
Yet it was even more dreadful for Jesus, for unlike other criminals condemned to death by crucifixion Jesus was nailed to the cross by His hands and feet, rather than tied...
Uh, no. Actually, he got off pretty lightly. Read Seneca or Josephus - the Romans were known for their inventiveness with punnishments.

Quote:
Each nail
was 6 to 8 inches long.

The nails were driven into His wrist. Not into His palms as is commonly portrayed.
This is correct

Quote:
There's a tendon in the wrist that extends to the shoulder. The Roman guards knew that when the nails were being hammered into the Wrist, that tendon would tear and break, forcing Jesus to use His back muscles to support himself, so that He could breathe.
I don't know about this tendon stuff, but the breathing is correct - this is more due to the fact that the arms were splayed out, rather than actual damage to the arms. You don't use arm tendons to breathe.
Quote:
Both of His feet were nailed together. Thus He was forced to support Himself on the single nail that impaled His feet to the cross. Jesus could not support himself with His legs for long because of the pain, so He was forced to alternate between arching His back and using his legs just to continue to breath. Imagine the struggle, the pain, the suffering, the courage.
Generally, I thought the thirdnail went through the ankle rather than the foot, but they are correct about the pain.
Quote:
Jesus endured this reality for over 3 hours.

Yes, over 3 hours! Can you imagine this kind of suffering?
This is the interesting bit. He may have lasted for three hours, but generally, the cricified could last for days or weeks. Death was generally through asphyxiation after exhaustion, rather than actual injuries. The spear would have assisted in his death, so was actually an act or mercy.

The rest, I'm not going to comment on, apart from
Quote:
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

All Others Pay Cash...
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  #3  
Old 06 October 2010, 02:57 AM
Michael Cole's Avatar
Michael Cole Michael Cole is offline
 
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waffles waffles
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  #4  
Old 06 October 2010, 03:00 AM
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crocoduck_hunter crocoduck_hunter is offline
 
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Wait, where was the "scientific" part again? All I saw was a few historic factoids mixed in with the usual glurging.
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  #5  
Old 06 October 2010, 03:11 AM
moonfall moonfall is offline
 
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Location: Central FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Cole View Post
Mostly OK in terms of accuracy...


This is the interesting bit. He may have lasted for three hours, but generally, the cricified could last for days or weeks. Death was generally through asphyxiation after exhaustion, rather than actual injuries. The spear would have assisted in his death, so was actually an act or mercy.
If I remember the Biblical account correctly, Jesus was still alive after 9 hours. I believe there is a verse that says "In the ninth hour, Jesus said 'I thirst'". That's when the soldiers gave Jesus vinegar to drink instead of water.
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  #6  
Old 06 October 2010, 06:17 AM
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JoeBentley JoeBentley is offline
 
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Even given how hard it is for me to understand anything within a religious mindset, the utter fixation with the suffering of Jesus confuses me.

Let's get something out the way. Even taking the story of Jesus as laid out in the Testaments at was 100% true, Jesus didn't experience some unimaginable, ultimate, never equaled level of human suffering. Jesus was tortured to death over a period of a day or two. People have suffered more, worst, and longer then Jesus, far more then Jesus, unimaginably more then Jesus, everyday in every society in history. To be blunt about it as I heard once, Jesus had a really bad weekend for our sins.

I really don't get the Suffering Jesus fetish some Christians seem to have. If one terrible 36 hour period is all it takes to absolve the whole of mankind from sin, then most POWs or cancer victims absolved more of our sins then the ostensible son of God.
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  #7  
Old 06 October 2010, 08:00 AM
moonfall moonfall is offline
 
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To make things worse, as I've mentioned before on other threads in the past, I'm obsessive-compulsive, and issues with religion and guilt are a particular trigger. Naturally, something like this isn't the best thing to send someone who suffers from this particular problem. The timing couldn't have been worse either. I had forgotten to take my medication the day before, and almost had a freakout regarding "bad thoughts" relating to this exact subject (triggered by a show I was watching in which a character was sacrificed to absolve the villages' sins). I had to quickly take my pill and distract myself before I had a full-blown guilt attack. I've heard of people with even more severe OCD physically harming themselves as punishment for their role in killing Jesus.

As for why my relatives would send me something that should be an obvious trigger, they either don't realize that it is or don't care. My mom thinks I use OCD as an excuse to avoid church because I'm simply too lazy to go (rather than actually being made uncomfortable).

But back to the OP, I'm pretty sure it's not possible to bleed water.
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  #8  
Old 06 October 2010, 08:19 AM
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Cyrano Cyrano is offline
 
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Who wrote that torture porn? Mel Gibson, maybe?
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  #9  
Old 06 October 2010, 09:12 AM
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Sandgroper Sandgroper is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfall View Post
The human adult body contains about 3.5 liters
(just less than a gallon) of blood.
They could at least get their facts right

An average man weighing 70kg would have ~5 liters of blood.
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  #10  
Old 06 October 2010, 09:25 AM
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Skeptic Skeptic is online now
 
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Quote:
1. Pray for the person who sent this message to you.
Please God, stop people sending on this crap.


Quote:
2. Send this message to 10 people...More if you wish.
And they'll send it to another 10 etc. Pretty soon it's sounding like an Amway meeting.
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  #11  
Old 06 October 2010, 09:54 AM
redspider
 
Posts: n/a
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Cole View Post
I don't know about this tendon stuff, but the breathing is correct - this is more due to the fact that the arms were splayed out, rather than actual damage to the arms. You don't use arm tendons to breathe.
and

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Cole View Post
Death was generally through asphyxiation after exhaustion, rather than actual injuries.
This is what we were taught at school too; that a crucifixion prevented breathing by placing the body in what might be known as a stress position. The condemned is forced to pull himself up every time he wants to take a breath.

However, wikipedia offers some contention to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion#Cause_of_death
A theory attributed to Pierre Barbet holds that, when the whole body weight was supported by the stretched arms, the typical cause of death was asphyxiation.[32] He conjectured that the condemned would have severe difficulty inhaling, due to hyper-expansion of the chest muscles and lungs. The condemned would therefore have to draw himself up by his arms, leading to exhaustion, or have his feet supported by tying or by a wood block. When no longer able to lift himself, the condemned would die within a few minutes. Experiments by Frederick Zugibe have, however, revealed that, when suspended with arms at 60 to 70 from the vertical, test subjects had no difficulty breathing, only rapidly increasing discomfort and pain.
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  #12  
Old 06 October 2010, 09:56 AM
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Friends of Alfred Friends of Alfred is offline
 
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Quote:
Let's see if Satan can stop this...
Eh?
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  #13  
Old 06 October 2010, 12:56 PM
Cyrano's Avatar
Cyrano Cyrano is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfall View Post

He had no more blood
to bleed out, only water poured from His
wounds. The
human adult body contains about 3.5 liters
(just less than a gallon) of blood.

... beyond that, a Roman soldier who stabbed a spear into His chest..
Glurgist, get your stuff right:

Quote:
The lance... is mentioned only in the Gospel of John (19:3137) and not in any of the Synoptic Gospels. The gospel states that the Romans planned to break Jesus' legs, a practice known as crurifragium, which was a method of hastening death during a crucifixion. Just before they did so, they realized that Jesus was already dead and that there was no reason to break his legs. To make sure that he was dead, a Roman soldier (named in extra-Biblical tradition as Longinus) stabbed him in the side.

' but one of the soldiers pierced his side with a lance, and immediately there came out blood and water.' John 19:34
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Lance

As for the water, I'm no doctor but I guess it had gathered in the lungs... if the whole thing happened at all, of course. BTW, you're usually dead long before "you have no more blood to bleed out".
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  #14  
Old 06 October 2010, 02:07 PM
moonfall moonfall is offline
 
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I wasn't aware of the "blood and water" passage, but I would have guessed that the "water" would be plasma or some other internal fluid. Since bodily fluids are made up largely of water, I guess the description is only inaccurate if you take it literally.
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  #15  
Old 06 October 2010, 02:53 PM
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DawnStorm DawnStorm is offline
 
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There was an article on the Crucifixtion in a 1982 Journal of the AMA. IIRC, the author opined that Jesus actually died from blood loss and hypovolemic shock. IMO it was a powerful and informative article and as a bonus, it didn't have all that glurge goop at the end. No, I didn't copy it and pass it on either.
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  #16  
Old 06 October 2010, 06:02 PM
catty5nutz catty5nutz is offline
 
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Let's see

Hanging, drawing and quartering

Burning at the stake, espcially if the wood was wet or green.

Impaling [a speciality of Vlad Tepes]

A certain dictator alleged to have a fondness for piano wire [oblique godwinizing here!]

Being crucified upside down

I'd say that these are up there.
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  #17  
Old 06 October 2010, 09:32 PM
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Thing 2 Thing 2 is offline
 
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The thing about using a single nail for the feet is interesting. In my art history class last semester, we talked about how to date crucifixes by the nails. For a long time, paintings showed each foot nailed separately, crossed at the ankles. There was a decent amount of controversy over which ankle was on top, based on conflicting visions by a couple of saints whose names I can't remember. It was only during the Baroque, IIRC, that one nail became the standard. And even then, a lot of Baroque paintings have two nails, with one leg bent at the knee.
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  #18  
Old 06 October 2010, 10:04 PM
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Tootsie Plunkette Tootsie Plunkette is offline
 
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A year or so ago I saw some show on history or archeology (don't recall the name or even the channel) in which they showed what was purported to be the bones of someone who had been crucified by the Romans - the first ever identified as such. I forget the exact details, but the conclusion was that the feet were nailed separately, through the ankle, on either side of the cross.
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  #19  
Old 06 October 2010, 10:07 PM
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Brad from Georgia Brad from Georgia is offline
 
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Punchline of the worst joke I ever heard: "Hey, buddy, mind crossing your legs? We lost one of the nails."
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  #20  
Old 06 October 2010, 11:46 PM
moonfall moonfall is offline
 
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Weren't there multiple methods of crucifixion?
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