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  #1  
Old 16 September 2010, 07:25 PM
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Icon86 Walking corpses in Indonesia

Comment: Only in Indonesia (especially Toraja), a corpse is usually being
carried up to the grave, but in Toraja, the corpse is woken up letting it
walk to its grave (is rarely performed anymore)

The corpse is woken up using black magic. This is done because in Toraja
the graves/cemetries is placed above limestones mountains.

The corpse walks by itself, and its guided by an expert in black magic behind it.
But there is one prohibition, the corpse shouldn’t be appointed, once pointed,
the corpse falls down and isn’t able to walk again.

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  #2  
Old 16 September 2010, 10:04 PM
General Redwood General Redwood is offline
 
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"When there is no more room in Hell..."

But seriously, I don't even know how to comment on this. I don't know what this photo is of, but basic logic tells me it's not a zombie burial.

Besides, a quick peak at the Wiki page for Toraja shows it to be vast majority Christian, not practitioners of 'black magic'.
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Old 16 September 2010, 10:11 PM
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I am sensing a certain non-facility with the English language, myself.
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Old 16 September 2010, 10:12 PM
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Off hand I would say that is a mummy, not a corpse. There are many cultures that "parade" mummies of their ancestors. Granted the mummies don't actually walk, but they are certainly dressed up and carried about.
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Old 16 September 2010, 10:19 PM
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What's the point of bringing someone back to life (or unlife?) and then pointing at them? So they can walk to their own grave and we can save on pallbearers?
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Old 16 September 2010, 10:20 PM
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Well, the graves are above the mountains, you see. Zombies are cheaper than helicopters.
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Old 16 September 2010, 10:42 PM
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Why would the people of this place locate a cemetary somewhere like the top of a mountain so inaccesible for anyone wishing to carry a deceased person there that one has to enlist the help of a voodoo practitioner skilled enough (I assume there aren't too many around - well I'm assuming none actually) to perform this rite?

Also, though I have little experience in digging graves, or indeed digging many holes, wouldn't limestone be a difficult places to dig a hole? Soil with a high clay content is difficult enough.
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Old 16 September 2010, 11:12 PM
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Also, if the gravesite is so difficult to get to, is a reanimated corpse going to be able to make it? They are not generally regarded as being very coordinated.
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Old 16 September 2010, 11:20 PM
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It could be a living person who is for whatever reason filthy and near-starved. Perhaps she has been trapped for a long time (earthquake? Just throwing that out there).
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Old 16 September 2010, 11:28 PM
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I'm wondering if this isn't from the set of some film or TV show. The guy in the background is watching whatever is going on very casually, and there are at least two photographers (whoever took this pic, plus the owner of the cel phone visible in the lefthand corner)
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  #11  
Old 16 September 2010, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddylizard View Post
Why would the people of this place locate a cemetary somewhere like the top of a mountain so inaccesible for anyone wishing to carry a deceased person there that one has to enlist the help of a voodoo practitioner skilled enough (I assume there aren't too many around - well I'm assuming none actually) to perform this rite?
It reminds me of that tea house that you have to climb a mountain to get to. Maybe going to that grave site is just really worth the hike.
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Old 17 September 2010, 12:30 AM
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The story could be based on this Taoist practice; it's already been the source of a couple of movies:

Quote:
A supposed source of the jiang shi stories came from the folk practice of "Traveling a Corpse over a Thousand Li" (千里行屍), where traveling companions or family members who could not afford wagons or had very little money would hire Taoist priests to transport corpses of their friends/family members who died far away from home over long distances by teaching them to hop on their own feet back to their hometown for proper burial. Taoist priests would transport the corpses only at night and would ring bells to notify other pedestrians of their presence because it was considered bad luck for a living person to set eyes upon a jiang shi. This practice (湘西趕屍) was popular in Xiangxi where many people left their hometown to work elsewhere.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiang_Shi

- Il-Mari
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Old 17 September 2010, 02:18 AM
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If they had very little money, how did they afford to hire Taoist Priests - unless the hire of a Taoist Priest is comparatively cheap?

How could anyone teach a corpse to hop? I might as well try to teach my dead cat how to sing.

Not that I'm wishing to suggest I doubt the wisdom of the free encyclopedia anyone can edit of course.

Last edited by Eddylizard; 17 September 2010 at 02:26 AM.
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Old 17 September 2010, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddylizard View Post
If they had very little money, how did they afford to hire Taoist Priests - unless the hire of a Taoist Priest is comparatively cheap?

How could anyone teach a corpse to hop? I might as well try to teach my dead cat how to sing.

Not that I'm wishing to suggest I doubt the wisdom of the free encyclopedia anyone can edit of course.
I hope you're kidding and I just can't tell - because otherwise you might as well be questioning the logic behind the stories of pixies, werewolves, vampires, ogres and other mythological western monsters.

It's not in dispute whether Jiang Shi stories exist in China - they do (I've both read some and seen Hong Kong movies based on the concept) - I'm not claiming that these folklores/legends are true, just pointing out that those provide a story that sort of fits in with the description given with the picture.

- Il-Mari
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Old 17 September 2010, 03:38 AM
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I'm not kidding, but your excerpt seemed to suggest that whoever wrote the Wikipedia piece was.
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Old 17 September 2010, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddylizard View Post
Why would the people of this place locate a cemetary somewhere like the top of a mountain so inaccesible for anyone wishing to carry a deceased person there that one has to enlist the help of a voodoo practitioner skilled enough (I assume there aren't too many around - well I'm assuming none actually) to perform this rite?

Also, though I have little experience in digging graves, or indeed digging many holes, wouldn't limestone be a difficult places to dig a hole? Soil with a high clay content is difficult enough.
Tana Toraja is known for some unique burial areas - such as the cliff graves described here.
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Old 17 September 2010, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddylizard View Post
I'm not kidding, but your excerpt seemed to suggest that whoever wrote the Wikipedia piece was.
I still have no idea what you mean. No-one is saying that what I quoted is a real-life even that actually happened with corpses being made to move around by priests.

It's a myth. It's a legend.

What part of the wikpedia telling of this myth do you consider to be not representative of what the myth actually is? Where do you think it is that they're 'kidding?' Do you think that this myth does not actually exist, and the authors of the wikipedia page just made it up? I can assure you that they did not, though of course the tellings may differ. For what it's worth, the versions I've heard are very similar, that Taoist priests grant some degree of mobility to the deceased so they can be moved to more proper sites of burial. I've heard several different explanations why they're described as moving by 'hopping,' but that's not an important part of what I posted as it relates to the OP.

And if I link to a page that talks about transubstantion, are you going to ridicule it because it makes no sense that wine could be turned to blood by a priest, never mind the blood of a specific person who was also holy? That's what the position of the Catholic Church is. Do you think I'm 'kidding' when I write that down?

If I post links to pages describing miracles that are attributed to Christian saints, are you likewise going to say that the writer must be 'kidding' because they seem to be implausible?

These are religion-based stories, they don't always make the greatest amount of logical sense.

- Il-Mari
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Old 17 September 2010, 07:05 PM
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I think this seems to be the key phrase:
Quote:
...Taoist priests would transport the corpses only at night and would ring bells to notify other pedestrians of their presence because it was considered bad luck for a living person to set eyes upon a jiang shi....
So the bodies only moved on their own at night and the preists rang bells so that nobody would have to see the process...
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  #19  
Old 18 September 2010, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
But there is one prohibition, the corpse shouldn’t be appointed, once pointed,
the corpse falls down and isn’t able to walk again.
"I've fallen and I can't get up!!"
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  #20  
Old 18 September 2010, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddylizard View Post
Why would the people of this place locate a cemetary somewhere like the top of a mountain so inaccessible for anyone wishing to carry a deceased person there that one has to enlist the help of a voodoo practitioner skilled enough (I assume there aren't too many around - well I'm assuming none actually) to perform this rite?

Also, though I have little experience in digging graves, or indeed digging many holes, wouldn't limestone be a difficult places to dig a hole? Soil with a high clay content is difficult enough.
It says the graves are above limestone mountains, not in them. Presumably they are in an area that therefore has soil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterGrey View Post
I'm wondering if this isn't from the set of some film or TV show. The guy in the background is watching whatever is going on very casually, and there are at least two photographers (whoever took this pic, plus the owner of the cel phone visible in the lefthand corner)
Yes, especially since there appears to be a fully made bed behind them, which is a tad anachronistic. The cell phone could also theoretically be some sort of light meter or some such.
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