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  #1  
Old 04 June 2010, 05:07 PM
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Jenn Jenn is offline
 
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Default Illegitimate stop signs

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  #2  
Old 04 June 2010, 05:15 PM
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AnglRdr AnglRdr is offline
 
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I think it would depend on whether the road was considered a public highway or a private roadway. Also, paper stickers don't last very long on signs out in the elements.
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Old 04 June 2010, 05:22 PM
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So, instead of just stopping at a stop sign, what? I should stop, get out of the car and look at the back of the stop sign?
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Old 04 June 2010, 05:25 PM
Troodon Troodon is offline
 
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It is legal to put up unofficial stop signs? That's very surprising if true.
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  #5  
Old 04 June 2010, 05:30 PM
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AnglRdr AnglRdr is offline
 
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Shopping mall owners do it all the time.
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  #6  
Old 04 June 2010, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troodon View Post
It is legal to put up unofficial stop signs? That's very surprising if true.
You can put up any sign you want on private property (example, mobile home park). Our landlord can, and does. There's a catalog she can order from. The tractor supply place near us sells full size signs for landowners and smaller versions for the snowmobile trails.
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  #7  
Old 04 June 2010, 05:36 PM
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I'm not sure I would really care if a stop sign was official or unofficial; I figure they're there for a reason. I would be really ticked off if I were hit by someone who decided not to stop because they weren't "legally obligated."
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  #8  
Old 04 June 2010, 05:39 PM
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A Turtle Named Mack A Turtle Named Mack is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troodon View Post
It is legal to put up unofficial stop signs? That's very surprising if true.
I had to research this area before. Basically, it would be illegal to post your own stop signs on a public road or other government owned/controlled place. You can post stop signs, speed limit signs, yield signs, etc. on private property (preferably your own, as it would be trespassing on others' property). However, the police cannot ticket a person for disobeying an unofficial traffic control device on private property (some states may vary on this, or have special zones that allow police authority, especially in places like colleges and hospitals). Nonetheless, if you disregard a private traffic control device, and your disregard of it leads to a collision, then your disregard of the traffic control device will be considered in court in assessing liability just as if it were a public roadway.
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  #9  
Old 04 June 2010, 05:40 PM
Gayle Gayle is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnglRdr View Post
Shopping mall owners do it all the time.
Which is why it's a bad idea to assume that the person with the stop sign is going to stop in a parking lot.
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  #10  
Old 05 June 2010, 02:55 AM
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The stop signs that we had installed in our development (all our streets are public) have no stickers on the back, were not installed by the town, and are legally binding. We requested additional stop signs because people were using our main drag as a launching pad, and we were offered the choice of the bog-standard signs and poles, installed free of charge by the town, or custom signs that we would pay for. We opted for the latter.

So yeah, the sticker thing is a non-sequitur. If it's on a public road, you'd better stop at it.
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Old 05 June 2010, 03:28 AM
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A few years ago we had a muppet in a neighbouring village decide that he didn't want people driving fast by his house on the outskirts of the village.

Firstly he put up speed camera warning signs (in th UK if there are speed cameras the authorities are required to put up signs that say they are there.) They were clearly fake being way too small, though I guess realistic enough to fool the stupid. Not too bad I guess if it gets people to slow down.

Then what does he do? There's an official speed limit sign. On one side entering the village it says to slow to 30mph as you approach a rather dodgy T Junction the majority of the houses a church and a primary school, on the other side it says you can now do the national speed limit (60 mph for that class of road) leaving the village.

So the muffin turned it around. 60 mph approacing the centre of the village and 30 mph leaving it. AFAIK no-one was killed or injured by this stupidity but even so.

It might have been nice for you if people slowed down going past your house (only 4 to houses choose from - I know who you are but I can't prove it) but maybe not so nice if somebody heeded your adulterated sign, accelerated to sixty mph, ploughed across the unexpected junction and into a group of six year old children.

Last edited by Eddylizard; 05 June 2010 at 03:35 AM.
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  #12  
Old 05 June 2010, 05:15 AM
Troodon Troodon is offline
 
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So is the distinction between stop signs on public roads, which are enforced by the police, and stop signs on private land, which are not? Can I really run the stop signs in the mall parking lot with impunity?
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  #13  
Old 05 June 2010, 05:37 AM
Singing in the Drizzle Singing in the Drizzle is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troodon View Post
So is the distinction between stop signs on public roads, which are enforced by the police, and stop signs on private land, which are not? Can I really run the stop signs in the mall parking lot with impunity?
Not quite, it is possible to give jurisdiction to the local police to enforce traffic laws on privet property.

Last edited by Singing in the Drizzle; 05 June 2010 at 06:07 AM.
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  #14  
Old 05 June 2010, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle View Post
Which is why it's a bad idea to assume that the person with the stop sign is going to stop in a parking lot.
I don't assume that a person on a public road is going to stop either - I'll make sure I can clear the intersection ahead of him/her, that s/he are making to stop, or that I have some way to avoid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troodon View Post
So is the distinction between stop signs on public roads, which are enforced by the police, and stop signs on private land, which are not? Can I really run the stop signs in the mall parking lot with impunity?
As noted by SITD, and in my post above, states can make laws allowing police jurisdiction for driving rules on certain private property. Usually that is kept to the areas that are most like public roads, but that would include malls, shopping centers, schools, etc. Not all have done so - to the best of my knowledge Georgia has not. If I come to a parking lot stop sign and I can see amply in all directions, I go right through it. But if the way is not so visible, I observe them, as they also make a lot of safety sense.
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  #15  
Old 05 June 2010, 02:32 PM
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Mr. Roadie is the Sign Guy for our local jurisdiction. His signs have no stickers on the back, but they are quite legal and enforceable.
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  #16  
Old 05 June 2010, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troodon View Post
So is the distinction between stop signs on public roads, which are enforced by the police, and stop signs on private land, which are not? Can I really run the stop signs in the mall parking lot with impunity?
If you count damage, injury, and death as impunity.
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  #17  
Old 05 June 2010, 04:37 PM
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So stop signs are only enforceable if they have directions on the back to the nearest UN concentration camp?

Weird.
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  #18  
Old 05 June 2010, 09:38 PM
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lord_feldon, please tell me that site is a spoof. Please?
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  #19  
Old 05 June 2010, 10:26 PM
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Keep in mind that even if private traffic signs are not legally binding in the sense that a police officer cannot ticket you for running them, they can still be very damning proof in a civil suit if a person's refusal to obey those signs causes an accident. Although running a stop sign in a private parking lot may not allow a police officer to write out a ticket, it would be very strongly indicative of negligent driving if running the stop sign resulted in you colliding with a person who had "right of way."
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  #20  
Old 05 June 2010, 10:50 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokuk View Post
Keep in mind that even if private traffic signs are not legally binding in the sense that a police officer cannot ticket you for running them, they can still be very damning proof in a civil suit if a person's refusal to obey those signs causes an accident. Although running a stop sign in a private parking lot may not allow a police officer to write out a ticket, it would be very strongly indicative of negligent driving if running the stop sign resulted in you colliding with a person who had "right of way."
This must be covered by law in most states.

If a grocery store puts up a stop sign in their lot and some people think it must be followed and others don't then wouldn't that be a significant liability issue for the store?
Edit:
Did some googling and near as a I can tell it varies, a lot, by state.

It appears:
1) In some states all traffic laws apply to any roadway open to the public (whether publicly or privately owned) like at a mall, and, any sign put up in accordance with the local sign laws (size, height, coloration...) is ligit even if put up by the roperty owner. In these states a cop could sit in the lot and give tickets for running a stop sign.

2) In some states a private property owner can authorize and request that traffic laws are enforced on their private property. In these states a cop could sit in the lot and give tickets for running a stop sign if the property owner had filled out the proper paperwork.

3) In some states private property is basically out of limits for most traffic citations except a few violations like drunk driving and parking in a handicapped spot.

Last edited by jimmy101_again; 05 June 2010 at 11:05 PM. Reason: edit: added stuff
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