Not eating beef causes mental illness?

[purpleiguana]

I'm pretty sure this is bunk, but you snopes guys are the best, so I wanted to get confirmation on my gut feeling.

Back when my 3 year old was about 1 and a half, my FIL told me that he was concerned that he wasn't eating meat, beef especially. He said that beef has vitamin B12 which is necessary for mental development and that a deficiency could cause neurological problems. For this, he cited one of his sisters who gave up eating meat and later turned up with mental problems.

I looked at my son's vitamin drops and pointed out that it said each dose had 85% or so of his daily recommended dose, and he shook his head dismissively and said that wasn't good enough. Since my son wasn't a big meat eater at the time (he's better now), I asked if there were other foods B12 was in to help supplement his vitamin. Another dismissive shake of the head, and I was basically told it was beef or mental illness. My choice.

There are lots of little statements my FIL has been known to make that serve no other purpose than to drive me crazy. Like back when he told me I needed to lose weight if I wanted to get pregnant (we were having difficulty conceiving, and FIL seemed content to believe my weight was the only issue) and that the fact that I haven't "outgrown" pimples means I have excessive male androgen (or something like that) in my system... blah blah... as is evidenced by my "facial hair"--which is not whiskers, but slightly thicker than normal "peach fuzz" that is over a birthmark on my face. I sometimes want to smack the man...

However, given that my FIL has a scientific background and I don't... I didn't feel qualified to challenge his statement, so I backed down. Truth be told, I blow him off a lot, but when he starts talking about the health of my children, I take that uber-seriously, and I started to feel horrible about myself.

Now, given that there are whole populations who are vegetarian/vegan or who simply have moral objections to eating beef in particular, and these people are not 100% plagued by neurological dysfunction, my common sense tells me this is crap. But I wanted to make sure I had all the information on this, as my kids' health is of the utmost importance to me.

(As I was writing this post, it occurred to me that I might have asked this question back on the old board. If I'm doubling up, I apologize for the repetition.)

[Chloe]

I haven't eaten meat of any sort since 1981, and I'm perfectly sane. You can ask any of the Daleks who live in my phone.

[purpleiguana]

Originally Posted by purpleiguana

...as my kids' health is of the utmost importance to me.

(showing up my know-it-all, driving-me-crazy FIL comes a close second. )

[BringTheNoise]

According to Wiki, Vitamin B12 deficiency can cause anemia and macrocytosis, not mental illness, and its main sources are meat (particulalrly liver), milk, eggs and fortified breakfast cereals. Sounds like your kid will do fine without the beef.

[diddy]

Even if it prevented mental illness, as it was pointed out, Beef is not the only source of it.

[BluesScale]

Hindus and Buddhists and Inuit never eat beef. They rarely wear their underpants on their heads.

I think that his conclusion is not entirely sound

Blues

[songs78]

Your father in law is correct. Only by eating meat, products of animals or supplements can you get sizable vitamin B12.

Also vitamin B12 deficiency may lead to neurological deficiencies including mental illness.

But as other posters have mentioned people who don't eat meat can get their B12 from other sources

But even if there was a b12 benefit to eating lots of beef, there are other issues with eating it including, cholesterol, mad cow, hormones and heart disease.

[Lainie]

I don't eat any meat, and I'm weird, but I was weird long before I stopped eating meat.

[Cervus]

Originally Posted by songs78

Your father in law is correct. Only by eating meat, products of animals or supplements can you get sizable vitamin B12.

Actually, the FIL claimed that beef was basically the only source of B12:

I asked if there were other foods B12 was in to help supplement his vitamin. Another dismissive shake of the head, and I was basically told it was beef or mental illness.

In this, he is incorrect. All meat, eggs, and seafood, and most dairy products contain B12, not just beef. Plant products don't contain it, so B12 deficiency can be a problem for vegans and strict vegetarians.

A basic web seach for "B12 sources" or "B12 foods" beings up many dietary and medical sites that explain what functions B12 performs, what deficiency symptoms are, and the best foods from which to get it.

Cite

Another Cite

Yet Another Cite

I have to agree with Lainie! I am a bit of a strange one but it's nothing to do with me not eating meat!

I'm not sure, I hear this sort of thing all the time. Although I agree obviously there are nutritional necessities (for want of better words) you stated yourself these can be taken in supplement form.

It's like my ex who was told time and again she shouldn't be so 'faddy' when she refused certain foods. people were a bit taken aback when she said 'well thanks for the sweeping statement, but actually i have coeliacs disease'. I got so cross at people who told her if she didn't hurry up and eat some cake she'd run the risk of contracting all kinds of horrors. she was perfectly fine, sometimes people can't help sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong.

personally i don't eat meat coz i don't seem to be able to digest it all too well, but i do have IBS type probs, not sure if that ever had anything to do with it. at any rate it always made me feel heavy and sluggish and super tired. is that coincidence or am i not alone there?

[Cervus]

Originally Posted by kisa

personally i don't eat meat coz i don't seem to be able to digest it all too well, but i do have IBS type probs, not sure if that ever had anything to do with it. at any rate it always made me feel heavy and sluggish and super tired. is that coincidence or am i not alone there?

No, I have always had trouble digesting red meats. I don't like the "heavy" feeling they give me. On the rare occasion when I become involved in vegetarian discussions, non-veggies and beef-lovers always bring up people they know who've "gone without meat so long" that they now have trouble digesting it. Sure, this happens to some folks, but there are also folks like me who just never developed the ability to digest it well in the first place.

thanks cervus, glad i am not the only one! i think people just assume when they ask why you're vegetarian and you're a girl you're going to respond with 'oooh think of all the fluffy wuffy cutie wuties'

i was brought up in a rural household, a lot of the meat we ate was game as my dad hunts. so lots of pheasant, grouse, and also rabbit, amongst other weird and wonderful things! as much as i liked the taste and could stomach it when i was quite young, the closer i got to my teens the more problems i had with it. maybe thats because that is when i started to have more IBS symptoms and obviously heading into your teens can make your stress levels rocket! I always seem to have my worst IBS type symptoms when i am fretting about something or other. Perhaps that is just purely psychological, but it seems to have a pattern to me.

anyhoo, i'm taking this way off topic now so i shall let everyone get on with the thread!

[Esprise Me]

I'm not a parent, but in my experience, children often refuse entire categories of food and usually turn out just fine. I knew a little girl who ate maybe one vegetable a month, and perhaps two pieces of fruit a year, and only when forced! She's still alive (I think she's fourteen now), doesn't have scurvy (in fact, she's quite a talented ice skater, and has never broken a bone), and, like Hindus and Buddhists, doesn't wear underwear on her head.

It's natural for parents to worry about their children's astonishingly picky eating habits, and it's good that he's getting a daily multivitamin. Just try not to worry too much.

[llewtrah]

Originally Posted by BluesScale

Hindus and Buddhists and Inuit never eat beef. They rarely wear their underpants on their heads.

I think that his conclusion is not entirely sound

Beaten to it. My Hindu colleagues are some of the most intelligent and industrious people I know - multiple university degrees!

BTW, some Hindus sometimes eat beef as long as it comes from non-sacred cattle. It all comes down to interpretation - the cattle used in burgers being "non sacred". This, of course, gets frowned on by those who eat no beef and to my way of thinking seems like an excuse to sometimes eat burgers.

I haven't eaten beef for over 25 years, but my varied diet means no deficiency of B12.

[BluesScale]

I have only been a veggie for 14 years.

If anything, I have become more sane. I am certainly much less aggressive than I was although age could be a component in that

Blues

[purpleiguana]

Thanks everyone... I appreciate the posts. Good to know that my gut reaction was right in this case, even tho I had no data to back it up with. I have a good gut... gotta learn to trust it more often.

[Mad Jay]

Me eat cow. Cow go crazy. Me called Mad Jay for a reason

[Dr. Dave]

Originally Posted by purpleiguana

There are lots of little statements my FIL has been known to make that serve no other purpose than to drive me crazy.
However, given that my FIL has a scientific background and I don't...

Based on what you posted, it sounds like his scientific background is reading one of those books that is a compendium of half-truths and out-of-context misrepresentations.

Anyway, much of what I would say is in multiple above posts, so I will add this: it seems that nutrition and food scources of nutrients may be a recurring issue, so I will arm you with the following. If he ever says "the only source of nutrient X is..." look at the USDA database. It basically lists almost any common food in multiple forms and gives you the nutritional breakdown. I would suggest that, as a lay person, you select the "Nutrient Lists" and then select the individual nutrient sorted by content. It will list foods that contain the nutrient from highest to lowest (per "common measure"). For example, if you look at the list for B12, you would see that in the top 10 are mollusks and mollusk containing dishes, yes beef, but also turkey and chiken giblets and salmon and sardines.

Then comes multiple cereals, which reminds me of my other point: It is hard to acquire a severe nutrient deficiency (without an underlying illness) with a varied American diet, becasue so many commercial foods are fortified. The bread has folic acid, the pasta has folic acid and iron, the cereal has a little of everything, etc.

In looking at the above numbers for B12, you would see that the beef and clams contain more than 10 times the vitamin as the cereal (per serving). So your FIL must be on to something, right? Well, it would also help to know the DRI (dietary reference intake, it replaced the old RDA- recommended daily allowance- system) for B12. You can look here for any nutrient. So, the DRI for B12 for kids is 1-2 micrograms per day, with no upper limit determined. Even though the beef gives you 70 micrograms, many of the foods listed give you at least 1 or 2 micrograms.

I only provide the above as a general resource. And in your case, PI, I don't mean to overwhelm, but rather arm you. So if tomorrow he says, "You know without copper the kids' eyes will fall out, and the only source of copper is sheep brains. {Dismissive shake of head} It's sheep's brains or their eyes fall out," you can look at the USDA website and say "Hey, this says that cholcolate chips have more than enough copper! "

ETA: Cervus's link for last night has similar info. for B12.

[geminilee]

I don't know, I tend to agree with FIL; if I don't get steak every so often I go crazy

[MapleLeaf]

I've been a vegetarian since I was 5, so that's over 15 years now. I'm doing completely fine. I do eat eggs, though, quite often. But no beef, no chicken, no fish, no seafood.