Pray for Obama: Don't wear this shirt!

[Jenn]

Comment: The attached photo came with the following email. I have gotten
the email several times, I was just wondering if this is a real t-shirt that is
being sold, or is this just an email that is trying to upset people for no
reason:

Don't buy this shirt. Whoever thought of this t-shirt expects us
as a black race to purchase the shirt without knowing what the
scripture says. The devil is always busy.

Pass it along

Psalm 109: 8-13

8 Let his years be few; let someone else take his position
9 May his children become fatherless, and his wife a widow
10 May his children wander as beggars and be driven from their ruined homes.
11 May creditors seize his entire estate, and strangers take all he has earned.
12 Let no one be kind to him; let no one pity his fatherless children.
13 May all his offspring die. May his family name be blotted out in a single generation.

King James Version

8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.
12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.
13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.

Let's not let the enemy get over on us! Although this story is in
the Bible, it is in the old testament about people who were
oppressed. The old testament tells us what happened. The New
testament, Jesus teaches us what to do and to pray for our
enemies!! Like these who came up with this shirt!

PLEASE FORWARD THIS ON

[Mateus]

Here's Video of a 17 Nov. discussion on "The Rachel Maddow Show" with Frank Schaeffer.

Here's CafePress' blog from 20 Nov. about removing the merchandise from their site.

Here's Zazzle's statement of 18 Nov. about removing said items.

Yes, it is all real.

[Astra]

My coworker heard about these t-shirts and mentioned them the other day. She was quite disgusted at the attitude they represented (and it's apparent support from mutual acquaintances of ours).

Anyway, here is a link that seems to indicate the shirts were posted for sale on Zazzle and Cafepress but yanked after complaints.

A search on both sites yields several similar items bearing "Pray for Obama" messages with verse references that point to less than complimentary passages.

Oh, here we go. Gawker has a nice write-up on the whole thing.

[lord_feldon]

But, but, but it just says "109:8." That means talking about anything from 9 on in relation to this shirt is irrelevant and out of context and the race card and class warfare.

[Troodon]

That's a remarkably mean-spirited shirt. Who would Jesus want dead?

[Foxy Lady]

I was never taught this:

Psalm 109 is known as "A Cry for Vengeance," which is one of the foundational values of Christianity,

assuming that the author here is talking about vengeance being a foundational value of Christianity.

ETA: quoting from the Gawker article: http://gawker.com/5407568/christian-...-to-kill-obama

[cdav1313]

How is that shirt any different than the countless "Bush Out Of Office" countdown shirts/bumperstickers, etc.?

And who brought race into the equation?

[lord_feldon]

Originally Posted by cdav1313

How is that shirt any different than the countless "Bush Out Of Office" countdown shirts/bumperstickers, etc.?

How many "Bush Out Of Office" items less-than-subtly stated that the best way for it to happen would be his death? (That being the only way to make his children fatherless and his wife a widow.)

-Lord "both sides do it, even when they don't" Feldon

[Astra]

Originally Posted by cdav1313

How is that shirt any different than the countless "Bush Out Of Office" countdown shirts/bumperstickers, etc.?

And who brought race into the equation?

As for race, please note this part of the OP:

Don't buy this shirt. Whoever thought of this t-shirt expects us
as a black race to purchase the shirt without knowing what the
scripture says. The devil is always busy.

I can't say if the shirt is real, but I have personally seen the "Pray for Obama - Psalm 109:8" message on bumper stickers.

I've never seen the other verses referenced, though.

[Silas Sparkhammer]

Originally Posted by lord_feldon

How many "Bush Out Of Office" items less-than-subtly stated that the best way for it to happen would be his death? (That being the only way to make his children fatherless and his wife a widow.)

It would just have made Cheney President! Just as Obama's death would only elevate Biden.

It took an awful lot of work to get rid of Agnew before getting rid of Nixon; today's kids don't know how much planning has to go into a successful coup d'etat!

Silas

[One-Fang]

Originally Posted by lord_feldon

How many "Bush Out Of Office" items less-than-subtly stated that the best way for it to happen would be his death? (That being the only way to make his children fatherless and his wife a widow.)

That passage is not referenced on the shirt. The passage referenced is only "May his days be few, may someone else take his place". Considering he's a US president, the inference would be that he be out of office quickly and another elected at the earliest possibility.

Does that mean everyone would naturally ignore the following lines, just because the shirt specifically references line 8 only? No, of course not. Human nature is to assume that more was meant. But let's face it, the shirt only calls for him out of office - not "his children fatherless, his wife a widow".

As you yourself pointed out above.

[Bryan With a 'Y']

Originally Posted by cdav1313

How is that shirt any different than the countless "Bush Out Of Office" countdown shirts/bumperstickers, etc.?

As an agnostic, my response would be "Maybe it isn't. So what?" Offensive and stupid is offensive and stupid, regardless of whether Truman's critics wore the same slogan on their hats.

However, I see the shirt as being far more offensive to Christians than it is to the President specifically. To call for people to turn their faith and prayers, the substance of their religious lives, to such petty spite is a monstrous slur to those who base their faith on love and compassion.

Did someone actually think they were being clever here?

[Jaime Vargas]

Originally Posted by Foxy Lady

I was never taught this:

[b]

assuming that the author here is talking about vengeance being a foundational value of Christianity.

ETA: quoting from the Gawker article: http://gawker.com/5407568/christian-...-to-kill-obama

The entire quote is:

Psalm 109 is known as "A Cry for Vengeance," which is one of the foundational values of Christianity, along with small-business tax cuts.

It's very definitely sarcasm on the part of the writer.

[lord_feldon]

Originally Posted by One-Fang

That passage is not referenced on the shirt.

Yes, it is. You have to take it in the context it's given in order to extract any valid meaning. They specifically put "Psalm 109:8" on the shirt. Psalm 109:8 is a part of the whole of Psalm 109.

Of course, I'll concede that they may have just went "OMG THE BIBLE HATES TEH MUSLIN B HUSSAIN TOO!!!" and quoted it without looking at the context it's in. I don't think that's all that much much better, though.

Originally Posted by One-Fang

The passage referenced is only "May his days be few, may someone else take his place".

Which, when you look at the context of the verse, can't really be taken to mean...

Originally Posted by One-Fang

Considering he's a US president, the inference would be that he be out of office quickly and another elected at the earliest possibility.

...because the rest of the Psalm makes it clear that 109:8 means that "his place" was opened up as a result of his death, which was a punishment for his wickedness. If they did not want it to be taken as such, they should not have made reference to it in a context where it means that.

Originally Posted by One-Fang

But let's face it, the shirt only calls for him out of office - not "his children fatherless, his wife a widow".

But the verse itself does not do that, so I don't see how a shirt that specifically references it in its original context can do that. It's like quoting page 364 of a book and saying that the rest of the book is irrelevant to its meaning, even when referenced as a part of the book.

But again, I suppose the people who made the shirt could just be stupid.

Originally Posted by One-Fang

As you yourself pointed out above.

I was mocking what I'm quite certain the response will be from the makers of the shirt.

[One-Fang]

People take selected portions and lines from the bible all the time and use it for all kinds of purposes without even knowing what the context of those passages are - virgin birth, anyone? The makers of this shirt can't do that?

It it said Psalm 109 I'd be with you. But it didn't. It said Psalm 109:8. Line 8 does not (necessarily) talk about death when taken alone - as intended here by the exclusion of other line numbers.

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by One-Fang

It it said Psalm 109 I'd be with you. But it didn't. It said Psalm 109:8. Line 8 does not (necessarily) talk about death when taken alone - as intended here by the exclusion of other line numbers.

What else does "may his days be few" mean taken alone, then?

[lord_feldon]

Originally Posted by One-Fang

It it said Psalm 109 I'd be with you. But it didn't. It said Psalm 109:8. Line 8 does not (necessarily) talk about death when taken alone - as intended here by the exclusion of other line numbers.

But allowing it to be "taken alone" is like if I took "Line 8 does not (necessarily) talk about death when taken alone" and decided to say that it was valid to use in reference to, say, page 287 of Gone With the Wind. That would be decidedly wrong (even if line 8 of page 287 of the book doesn't talk about death when taken alone), because it ignores the context of the thread.

If they did not want their shirt to actually carry any of the meaning of Psalm 109 along with it, they shouldn't have put "Psalm 109:8" on the shirt. Their fault, 100%, and it's their job to deal with the mess they made through carelessness and haste to trick people into thinking the shirt had a positive message.

I'm waiting with bated breath for a total and complete retraction and apology by the makers of the shirt.

Not.

[Simply Madeline]

Not a chow, exactly, but there's a similar psalm 109 discussion in this thread.

[BringTheNoise]

So when they were looking up the passage to put on the shirt they just stopped at the end of line 8 and didn't go any further? That's quite unlikely.