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  #1  
Old 05 November 2009, 10:10 PM
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Jenn Jenn is offline
 
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Tsk, Tsk Soldier's Dissent

Comment: Is there anyway to figure out when/where this picture was taken? If it's a REAL soldier? To enhance his name tape to see what his last name is? I know the quote is a Howard Zinn quote...but was mostly curious as to why a soldier would take the picture dressed in uniform and risk getting in trouble. As an Army Wife, I also find it offense.

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  #2  
Old 05 November 2009, 10:16 PM
Ryda Wong, EBfCo. Ryda Wong, EBfCo. is offline
 
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Quote:
As an Army Wife, I also find it offense.
So, she thinks that there should be no shame in killing innocent people?
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  #3  
Old 06 November 2009, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo. View Post
So, she thinks that there should be no shame in killing innocent people?
No she thinks there is no shame in pretending it never happened and didn't matter - because it never happened and, if it did, it didn't matter.

Which is why you can't argue with such people.

Dropbear
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  #4  
Old 06 November 2009, 01:42 AM
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Johnny Slick Johnny Slick is offline
 
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Don't you people realize that soldiers are on the front lines and die defending our freedom? Wake up America!
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  #5  
Old 05 July 2011, 04:14 PM
proudarmywife
 
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Default Absolutely not true.

This is a very close friend of mine, and he is one of the most patriotic soldiers that I have ever known. He's been trying to get the truth about this picture out for months now. Here is the true story as told by James himself: "PLEASE READ; Years ago while recruiting in Lawrence, KS we saved a desecrated flag and took a picture of it. I have just discovered that this pic has been used for years on numerous websites as both anti-military/war propaganda or as a dartboard for accusations, I got called some pretty bad names. I want to spam this out as much as possible with the TRUE history posted inside the pic if nothing more than to clear my name a little. Can you please repost, tag or do whatever you can to get this out?" Inside of the picture states, "This flag was desecrated and used by anti-war protestors in Lawrence, KS in 2007. Afterward is was recovered by myself and the soldiers in my office and turned in to the local Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) for proper disposal in accordance with military customs and honors." It was turned into VFW 852 in Lawrence, KS, where my husband and I frequent, and my best friend and cousin are both employed, and everybody can verify my identity. If you would like more proof, feel free to message me on Facebook, and James and or myself will gladly accept you as a friend.
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  #6  
Old 07 July 2011, 05:25 AM
TuFurg TuFurg is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo. View Post
So, she thinks that there should be no shame in killing innocent people?
Yep, that must be exactly what she found offensive.
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  #7  
Old 07 July 2011, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Slick View Post
Don't you people realize that soldiers are on the front lines and die defending our freedom? Wake up America!
I always fing that ironic. The soldiers fight for our freedoms so we can't question anything that happens in a war? The freedoms they fight for include the freedom of speech that allows the desecration of the flag and express disapproval of the government. The heroic efforts of the men and women that defend our nations also defend the rights of the likes of Fred Phelps and his cuckoo family.

The famous Voltaire quote tends to get a bit mixed up in the minds of some "patriots": I may not agree with what you say....so shut up!
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  #8  
Old 07 July 2011, 06:30 AM
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Yeah, there's a group of people who confuse patriotism and jingoism.
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  #9  
Old 07 July 2011, 01:51 PM
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The quote at the bottom of the image makes bugger all sense to me. It seems to be hair-splitting at its finest, implying that 'honest dissent' and 'disloyal subversion' are two things noticeably different to any good patriot, rather than two things divided only by the opinion of whoever is claiming they are an honest dissenter rather than a disloyal subverter.

Also, there's nothing patriotic about shaming and insulting people for protesting war in a country that boasts its freedom of speech.
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  #10  
Old 07 July 2011, 01:57 PM
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Jahungo Jahungo is offline
 
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There is absolutely no reason why someone cannot absolutely support America's strong free speech laws and at the same time find some speech offensive, or strongly criticize it.
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  #11  
Old 07 July 2011, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahungo View Post
There is absolutely no reason why someone cannot absolutely support America's strong free speech laws and at the same time find some speech offensive, or strongly criticize it.
No, but in my opinion calling the speech disloyal or unpatriotic runs counter to patriotism in a free country. ETA: unless the speech actually is unpatriotic, that is. 'I hate America!' is unpatriotic, if you're American. 'I hate this war' is not.
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  #12  
Old 07 July 2011, 02:27 PM
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The statement under the pic is confusingly written, but it's intended to support what's perceived to be the soldier's dissent.

ETA: I find the idea of "saving" a flag rather amusing, especially when the "desecration" has already happened (I put "desecration" in quotes because I don't believe a flag is sacred to begin with). Whatever its symbolic meaning, it's an inanimate object.
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  #13  
Old 07 July 2011, 03:38 PM
proudarmywife
 
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If you would like to befriend me on FB, my name is Amy Kreutzer.
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  #14  
Old 07 July 2011, 05:20 PM
Ryda Wong, EBfCo. Ryda Wong, EBfCo. is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proudarmywife View Post
If you would like more proof, feel free to message me on Facebook, and James and or myself will gladly accept you as a friend.
James who? Are we just supposed to take your word for this?
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  #15  
Old 07 July 2011, 05:31 PM
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If would help if she had other pictures with James or the flag. Pictures that do not appear on the internet. Otherwise, she's just a random person on the internet.
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  #16  
Old 07 July 2011, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proudarmywife View Post
"This flag was desecrated and used by anti-war protestors in Lawrence, KS in 2007. [...]"
I think a problem with this chronology and this particular image is that, as a reader at reddit has pointed out, this photo was posted to flickr at least five years ago.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63243500@N00/209371208/

It's tough to know whether it was actually taken in January, 2003 (when the United States was at least in Afghanistan), as the notation indicates, but the first comment on the photo was posted 59 months ago, which would've been sometime in the summer/early fall of 2006.

I wouldn't be surprised that this photo represents a soldier holding a flag confiscated from protesters, but it'd be nice to nail down specifics. Amy, if you'd like to share more information here, you're very welcome to do so. Or you and/or the fellow in the photo itself can e-mail the folks at snopes.com directly.
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  #17  
Old 07 July 2011, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
It's tough to know whether it was actually taken in January, 2003 (when the United States was at least in Afghanistan), as the notation indicates, but the first comment on the photo was posted 59 months ago, which would've been sometime in the summer/early fall of 2006.
Can't have been before 2005. Fielding of the ACU (which the soldier is wearing) wasn't started until 2005, so he would be wearing the old BDUs if it was any time prior to that.

That being said, proudarmywife could just be confused about the date and/or some minor details of the circumstances. FWIW, if you look in the upper right corner, the back of a poster in the window is visible. Looks like a recruiting poster. You know, the sort of place a recruiter would work. Which fits with her story. Office looks kind of recruiting station-ish too. Not that I've been in one lately...

ETA: The table with the TV or computer monitor on it, just above the right corner of the flag at front, also seems to have a flag table cloth, just the sort of tacky display one would expect in a recruiting station. I believe proudarmywife's description of events is closer to the reality of the situation than first glance would indicate.

Last edited by ASL; 07 July 2011 at 09:13 PM.
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  #18  
Old 07 July 2011, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
Can't have been before 2005. Fielding of the ACU (which the soldier is wearing) wasn't started until 2005, so he would be wearing the old BDUs if it was any time prior to that.

That being said, proudarmywife could just be confused about the date and/or some minor details of the circumstances. FWIW, if you look in the upper right corner, the back of a poster in the window is visible. Looks like a recruiting poster. You know, the sort of place a recruiter would work. Which fits with her story. Office looks kind of recruiting station-ish too. Not that I've been in one lately...
It reminded me of the offices for the Guard at our local armory (building is about 15-20 yrs old)
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  #19  
Old 07 July 2011, 09:34 PM
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According to a comment on this site:

Quote:
projo198
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
Sunday, June 5, 2011 11:07:12 AM
UPDATE; I am the Soldier holding the flag. We RESCUED it from anti-war protestors in Lawrence, Kansas around 2004. After taking this picture we turned it onto the local VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) for proper disposal according to military honor and regulation.
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  #20  
Old 07 July 2011, 09:38 PM
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They stole it from anti-war protesters, then?
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