Sleep disorders - has anyone here used light therapy?

[quink]

I've suffered from Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome all my life. Even though I force myself into normal sleeping hours and technically get eight hours of some form of sleep per night, it still feels like I'm being dragged out of bed in the middle of the night every time I start work (Luckily I have an accommodating work place that lets me shift my schedule by half an hour so I can start a little later). It's especially bad around this time of year, and I'm feeling like I'm essentially useless before noon since almost all of my energy in the morning is going towards just trying to stay awake at my desk. Even right now at 3:20pm, I'm yawning so hard my eyes are tearing up and I feel like I'm going to dislocate my jaw.

I've been on drugs for the condition in the past, but I find that most normal sleeping drugs just exaggerate the problem - I'm still wide awake and alert at night as I'm trying to fall asleep, and once they do kick in hours later, they'll knock me out for the rest of the day. I've been on extremely powerful short term drugs that will knock me out quickly (After hallucinating that the laundry is dancing, of course), but those are a very short term solution. I've also done my time with the sleep clinic and I know all the good sleep hygiene suggestions. They've helped me get to the point where I can fake a normal sleep schedule, but nothing I've done will make me alert before around noon, and unless I'm completely sleep starved, I'm not the least bit sleepy before around 2 in the morning.

As I said above, it's worse at this time of year when it seems to just be a constant shade of grey outside. SAD runs in my family, and even though I feel fine emotionally (For a change), I feel like I've been completely drained of energy. In fact, I don't feel fully 'awake' some days until the sun goes down. I'll perk up around 8-9 pm... just in time to start having to go through my wind down routine. You can see why it's frustrating

So, my question: My doctor has suggested light therapy in the past. I've looked into some different light boxes, but I haven't had a chance to try it. Has anyone here used some type of light therapy to combat either SAD or a circadian rhythm disorder? Any luck with it? I'd rather stay off drugs if possible, so I'm looking for any solution that will make things a bit better.

[Latiam]

Well.

I have a light box.

I thought it would be a really good idea. Such a good idea, in fact, that I bought it instead of renting it.

I don't use it.

I have both sleep disorders and depression.

See, here's the thing. In order to use it, I would have to get up 30 minutes early and read or something with this thing on.

I'd rather sleep for the 30 minutes.

Now, if you eat breakfast and read the paper or something, then this would be great - you could use it then. But if you are like me and get up only when you have to, you would have to get up half an hour earlier for this thing.

Also, see if you can rent it. Some places will let you rent it for a week or two and then use that money towards it if you buy it.

Just my 2c,

[quink]

Ugh. See, that's what I'm kind of worried about. Even with three alarm clocks going full blast for a couple hours, and all sorts of 'tricks', like setting my clocks ahead so I see them when I'm half-asleep and panic, I wake up about 15 minutes before I have to be at work most days (Luckily I live a block away from my office). I start work at 8:30, but I kind of float between a dozing and semi-awake state until around 10:00, which is when I start to wake up a bit and eat breakfast at my desk.

As I said, my workplace is pretty accommodating, and they've been willing to work with me on things like this in the past. I could probably get access to a private space for light therapy if I asked, but I don't know how effective it would be. I was looking at the smaller light books as well, to see if something like that could be used at a desk.

Not that I really want to broadcast SLEEP DISORDER!!! across the whole office. The worst thing about this is people not understanding that it's not just laziness or an excuse to sleep in, and that I really can't just adjust my schedule back an hour a night like a normal person can.

[Latiam]

Originally Posted by quink

. I was looking at the smaller light books as well, to see if something like that could be used at a desk.

That might be something to try. And if anyone asks, you don't have to broadcast sleep disorder, just say that it's a homeopathic way to help people feel more awake (or some such) and you thought you'd give it a try for a few weeks. You know how tired I get!

Putting it on first thing when you get there might help.


ETA: I'm not surprised your work is accommodating. You are skating pretty to close to having a disability, and it's law that Canadian employers have to make "all reasonable accommodations" for disabilities. All the same, it's best to keep it close to the vest, I know. Been there.

[Malruhn]

Really stupid question time... after doing sleep clinic stuff, have you been diagnosed with apnea or extreme snoring? Both have left me feeling exactly the same. I always thought I was on a 28-30 hour day (extended circadian rhythm)... which is a total bitch when you live in a world with a 24-hour day!! It was nothing for me to wake at 6:00 a.m., then STAY awake and functional until midnight - and then HAVE to sleep for ten to twelve hours or I felt like you describe. So I would go to sleep at midnight, wake a 6:00 again, and feel like you said, all darned week long. Then on the weekends, I would TRY to sleep for twelve hours or more to catch up.

My record was sleeping for 27 hours... and it wasn't drug or sleep deprivation induced. I was just "tired" and lost an entire Saturday.

HOWEVER, I recently got a "mouth-guard" thingy that extends my lower jaw as I sleep, enabling me to breath normally through the night. I now wake up disgustingly happy in the morning... and I have found that it is a struggle to stay in bed for more than eight hours. I've also found that I get tired at more of a "normal" time during the night - 10:00 to 11:00 I start yawning, and in the mornings, I just "wake up" and I am fine. I consider this to be a form of hell, as sometimes I WANT to sleep until noon... but wake up at disturbing hours on Saturday and Sunday mornings. I'm sorry, but 7:00 a.m is WAY TOO EARLY to get up on a weekend!!

Are you apnic or snorified?

[Venus]

Oh. My. God. I think i have this! I had no idea it was an actual thing with an actual name, I just figured it was an annoying quirk that left me tired all the time.

[quink]

No apnea when I tested at the sleep clinic (Granted, that was several years ago), and I've had no reports of heavy snoring from the boyfriend. Once I'm asleep, it's deep and normal and I wake up feeling rested and alert if I'm allowed to sleep in until 11am or so.

I did a full year's worth of studies with the sleep clinic here, including an experimental drug trial - that was an interesting experience. The drugs did nothing to help, made me sleep all day, and made me horribly paranoid on top of that, to the point where I called my mom in tears one night because there was a voicemail from an unknown caller on my phone and I was just certain it was someone out to get me. The sad part was that I was so paranoid that I didn't report the paranoia at first because I was afraid I actually had the placebo and it was all in my head.

You can see why I don't like using drugs

[Ana Ng]

Ambien is how I manage my sleep issues now- I went off it for a few months but in the end went back. It didn't seem worth it to me to toss and turn until 7:30 am just to "be off drugs." I've used Ambien and Lunesta for about 3-4 years now with no problems.

My main point is that I totally sympathize with everyone thinking you're "lazy" or judging you for the whole sleep thing. I hate being chronically under-slept and harangued by people for waking up "late." It's just a major, major pain in the ass.

Some mornings I sleep through my alarm several times in a row. Some mornings something wakes me before I have to wake up and I can't fall back asleep. Both of those things suck.

In my experience though, the more "gentle" and "natural" therapies for sleeping just result in way less to no effectiveness and no sleep. I end up with burning eyes and a desire to nap all day long. Insomnia sucks too because the more the symptoms screw up your life, the more symptomatic you become.

[Ana Ng]

ETA: Interestingly, quink, I've also suspected I have the thing you linked- my natural sleep schedule seems to be 4am-12pm, and if I get decent sleep I don't get daytime tired. At this point, though, I'm dependent on Ambien and I do need to be up earlier for work and my kids' school.

[RCIAG]

Originally Posted by quink

I've been on extremely powerful short term drugs that will knock me out quickly (After hallucinating that the laundry is dancing, of course)..

You wouldn't happen to have any of those left would ya? Sounds like it'd make for an interesting laundry day!

I kid.

The hubby went on Ambien when he was going through chemo but they also added in an anti-depressant because the Ambien wasn't cutting it. He'd sleep for about 4 hours on it & then be wide awake again, even during chemo.

He also was diagnosed as an ADD kid many moons ago so I think his metabolism is messed up. He's one of those people who can drink pots of coffee before bed & still sleep or take Benadryl & stay wide awake.

He now takes Ambien & Mirtazapine. The Mirtazapine (3 of them, can't recall the dosage right now) he takes around 7:00-7:30PM, the Ambien around 9:30-10PM & he's out like a light pretty quickly.

[Lainie]

Originally Posted by RCIAG

He also was diagnosed as an ADD kid many moons ago so I think his metabolism is messed up.

I don't know about adults with ADD, but Clonidine is sometimes used for sleep issues in ADD kids.

[Gayle]

One pill makes you larger and the other makes you small...

I had to do the Ritalin to stay awake and Sonata or Ambien to stay asleep routine for a year or so. Eventually, I got to go off. I know a lot of people don't want to take medication for sleep disorders, but sometimes it's worth a try. My experience is that a successful treatment for a SD tends to help with depression as well.

I eventually came clean with my co-workers because if you didn't know I'm having an issue with Extreme Daytime Sleepiness you'd think I was drunk. Also, mornings like this where I have hypogognic hallucinations before waking up, make me tired and cranky starting out the day. Might as well get it up front about why.

[RCIAG]

This thread has reminded me of last nite's dream about the first guy I ever slept with...**shuddersatthethoughtofeverseeinghimagain* *...man I certainly went UP the food chain in my dating career!

[Latiam]

Originally Posted by Lainie

I don't know about adults with ADD, but Clonidine is sometimes used for sleep issues in ADD kids.

I use a benzodiazapine - clonazepam - it helps me sleep through my legs jerking. I also have Ativan for when I can't get to sleep (sleep-onset insomnia) but I try not to use that because 1) you habituate really quickly and have to up the dose 2) it's addictive. Every year or so my doctor checks how many refills I got to make sure I'm not taking it too much, but she knows I worry about it so she's not overly concerned.

Originally Posted by Malruhn

Really stupid question time... after doing sleep clinic stuff, have you been diagnosed with apnea or extreme snoring? Both have left me feeling exactly the same. I always thought I was on a 28-30 hour day (extended circadian rhythm)... which is a total bitch when you live in a world with a 24-hour day!! It was nothing for me to wake at 6:00 a.m., then STAY awake and functional until midnight - and then HAVE to sleep for ten to twelve hours or I felt like you describe. So I would go to sleep at midnight, wake a 6:00 again, and feel like you said, all darned week long. Then on the weekends, I would TRY to sleep for twelve hours or more to catch up.

My record was sleeping for 27 hours... and it wasn't drug or sleep deprivation induced. I was just "tired" and lost an entire Saturday.

HOWEVER, I recently got a "mouth-guard" thingy that extends my lower jaw as I sleep, enabling me to breath normally through the night. I now wake up disgustingly happy in the morning... and I have found that it is a struggle to stay in bed for more than eight hours. I've also found that I get tired at more of a "normal" time during the night - 10:00 to 11:00 I start yawning, and in the mornings, I just "wake up" and I am fine. I consider this to be a form of hell, as sometimes I WANT to sleep until noon... but wake up at disturbing hours on Saturday and Sunday mornings. I'm sorry, but 7:00 a.m is WAY TOO EARLY to get up on a weekend!!

Are you apnic or snorified?

You may have also been bruxing, grinding your teeth during the night. Mouth guards cure them too. Right now I'm sleeping the entire weekend away but it's an autoimmune thing and I'm just trying to survive until my appointment November 30. I totally get all that you're saying. Especially the weekend bit. Except the happy part. And for me it's 9-10 hours - but that's down from like, 14.