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  #1  
Old 15 June 2009, 09:47 AM
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Default Australian study can't verify one 'drink-spiking'

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SUSPECTED victims of drink spiking are more likely to be suffering from drugs and alcohol they have willingly consumed, according to Australian research.

Of 100 suspected drink-spiking cases reviewed in a West Australian study, none were found to involve being slipped a sedative or illicit drug.

"The public's perception that it's a guy putting a sedative drug into a woman's drink, at a pub or a club, we just didn't find that at all,'' said Dr Mark Little, a clinical toxicologist at the Royal Perth Hospital.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-12377,00.html
This is what I have long suspected. I'm sure the spiking exists, but as the report stated ..."As a community, we have a bigger problem with illicit drug use and alcohol binge drinking than we do with drink spiking.''
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  #2  
Old 15 June 2009, 10:13 AM
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Does this not count?

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A hearing late last night was told that Harry William Barkas, 45, of South Yarra, drugged, raped and assaulted women after befriending them in the CBD, South Yarra, Albert Park and other inner suburbs in the early hours of the morning. He allegedly then bought them hot chocolate drinks from service stations and laced the drinks with unknown substances.
or this:
Quote:
A man accused of drugging 13 women and filming himself raping them when they were unconscious is likely to plead guilty.
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  #3  
Old 15 June 2009, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by damian View Post
Does this not count?



or this:
I didn't say it didn't happen, but that it is not the major drink or drug abuse issue that we face at the moment. The study was of 100 reported or suspected cases, and there was no evidence it happened in any of them. It's one of those things that due to people claiming to be spiked, that it is harder to believe those it really happens to.
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  #4  
Old 16 June 2009, 09:20 AM
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Flame Drink Spiking

I don't believe that all drinks are spiked with illicit drugs... I do however believe that sometimes drinks are spiked with EXTRA alcohol, which makes the victim more intoxicated and likely to be taken advantage of.

For example, male asks female if they would like a drink... male goes to the bar, orders a cocktail, asks for a shot on the side, then, adds shot to the drink... increasing the alcohol content... female gets intoxicated more quickly, becomes legless, male can take advantage of her.

I heard about the study on the radio a couple of days ago and got really annoyed that they said that the toxicology reports indicated that the person usually had a high blood alcohol content, related to binge drinking and it wasn't because the person's drink had been spiked by any illicit drugs. My example above would explain this high alcohol content and the reasons behind it... It's not always the usual "it's binge drinking that's the problem" explanation! Geesh!
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  #5  
Old 19 June 2009, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by lalagrrl84 View Post
I don't believe that all drinks are spiked with illicit drugs... I do however believe that sometimes drinks are spiked with EXTRA alcohol, which makes the victim more intoxicated and likely to be taken advantage of.

For example, male asks female if they would like a drink... male goes to the bar, orders a cocktail, asks for a shot on the side, then, adds shot to the drink... increasing the alcohol content... female gets intoxicated more quickly, becomes legless, male can take advantage of her.

I heard about the study on the radio a couple of days ago and got really annoyed that they said that the toxicology reports indicated that the person usually had a high blood alcohol content, related to binge drinking and it wasn't because the person's drink had been spiked by any illicit drugs. My example above would explain this high alcohol content and the reasons behind it... It's not always the usual "it's binge drinking that's the problem" explanation! Geesh!
I'm a bartender near a college and while that is possible plenty of young girls are getting themselves drunk all on their own. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten attitude from drunk college girls & guys who accuse me of short pouring their drinks because they are so drunk they can't taste the alcohol anymore. Don't get me wrong guys can spike drinks but there are plenty of ladies out there voluntarily binge drinking irresponsibly or mixing with drugs like Xanax which can cause impairments and blackouts, just like date rape drugs.
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  #6  
Old 19 June 2009, 09:37 PM
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Wolf

Quote:
Originally Posted by lalagrrl84 View Post
For example, male asks female if they would like a drink... male goes to the bar, orders a cocktail, asks for a shot on the side, then, adds shot to the drink... increasing the alcohol content... female gets intoxicated more quickly, becomes legless, male can take advantage of her.
Have you ever ordered a drink from a bar? I've never been served a drink that was so far from the top of the glass that I'd be able to add an extra ounce of liquid without first dinking a sizable amount of the drink. Also, the extra ounce of alcohol would so dramatically change the taste that she's know something was up.



Demon "Why is my woowoo brown?" Wolf
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  #7  
Old 19 June 2009, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DemonWolf View Post
Demon "Why is my woowoo brown?" Wolf
That is probably a question only you can answer, dear...

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  #8  
Old 27 June 2009, 12:33 AM
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Just a quick comment:

I have a friend who insists she's been drugged several times. She makes this claim just about every time she does something she's not particularly proud of after a night of hard drinking. The story usually goes "I only had 2 beers and a shot" but in reality (being a first hand witness) there's quite a bit more than that involved.

Not saying all women make the claim of being drugged to lie their way out of a bad experience, but I'm on board with the "she's had more to drink than she realizes" scenario.
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  #9  
Old 27 October 2009, 10:25 PM
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Default So you think you got roofied?

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/.../27/date_rape/

Quote:
From across the pond comes news that might make Lucinda Rosenfeld, Double X advice columnist and notorious roofie skeptic, feel a bit vindicated: Researchers from the University of Kent have found that young female students often "mistakenly linked sickness, blackouts and dizziness to poisoning by a stranger -- when it was likely to be caused by excessive alcohol consumption." Their paper, culled from interviews and surveys in both the U.K. and the U.S., suggests that the use of so-called date-rape drugs is little more than an urban legend -- despite the fact that young women "mistakenly think it is a more important factor in sexual assault than being drunk, taking drugs or walking alone at night." The Telegraph quotes Dr. Adam Burgess, of Kent's School of Social Policy, Sociology and Social Research: "Young women appear to be displacing their anxieties about the consequences of consuming what is in the bottle on to rumours of what could be put there by someone else." As for why so many women believe in the myth of "getting roofied," Burgess suggests, "The reason why fear of drink-spiking has become widespread seems to be a mix of it being more convenient to guard against than the effects of alcohol itself and the fact that such stories are exotic -- like a more adult version of 'stranger danger.'"
I'd read another study that said that most of the women who came into an ER saying they'd been roofied got tested and it came up negative. Date rape drugs do seem very conveniently UL-ish. Raping someone is always wrong, whether the victim is drunk or sober, but I guess it's easier on the victim to say, "I got drugged" than "I got really drunk."
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  #10  
Old 28 October 2009, 05:47 AM
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Icon24 Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'

Widespread spiking of drinks with date-rape drugs such as Rohypnol and GHB is an "urban legend" fuelled by young women unwilling to accept they have simply consumed too much alcohol, academics believe.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...an-legend.html
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  #11  
Old 28 October 2009, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by snopes View Post
Widespread spiking of drinks with date-rape drugs such as Rohypnol and GHB is an "urban legend" fuelled by young women unwilling to accept they have simply consumed too much alcohol, academics believe.
Just thought I'd point out that it appears as if the key word here is "widespread".
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  #12  
Old 28 October 2009, 04:50 PM
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I don't know anything about the prevalence of roofies, and so I will take the article at face value. Let's say that it is exceedingly rare for women to be raped while intentionally drugged...

Is there a meaningful difference between raping someone after giving them a roofie and raping someone after they drink too much and are unable to consent? Either way you raped someone who was incapable of consenting.

Of course it gets tricky when both parties are super drunk (well, I don't think it's tricky - if both parties are too drunk, no rape occurred). But when one party is too drunk and the other is not, it's just as rapey as slipping someone a roofie and then raping them.
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  #13  
Old 28 October 2009, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MapleLeaf View Post
Is there a meaningful difference between raping someone after giving them a roofie and raping someone after they drink too much and are unable to consent? Either way you raped someone who was incapable of consenting.
Legally speaking there could be. One shows malice aforethought. The other is a crime of opportunity. Thus sentencing would probably be different.
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  #14  
Old 28 October 2009, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DemonWolf View Post
Have you ever ordered a drink from a bar? I've never been served a drink that was so far from the top of the glass that I'd be able to add an extra ounce of liquid without first dinking a sizable amount of the drink. Also, the extra ounce of alcohol would so dramatically change the taste that she's know something was up.
The taste part makes me wonder if this is possible, but my girlfriend was telling me last night of a truly infuriating practice that bartenders engage in (although it may be a UL).

Sometimes, a guy goes up to the bar and tells the bartender he's looking to score tonight, and asks if the bartender can help. The bartender then adds extra alcohol to the girl's drink to get her good and loose so she's more likely to have sex with him.
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  #15  
Old 28 October 2009, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MapleLeaf View Post
I don't know anything about the prevalence of roofies, and so I will take the article at face value. Let's say that it is exceedingly rare for women to be raped while intentionally drugged...

Is there a meaningful difference between raping someone after giving them a roofie and raping someone after they drink too much and are unable to consent? Either way you raped someone who was incapable of consenting
Well, you could argue that it is worse to drug and rape someone than to rape someone who essentially drugged themselves, but at that point you're getting to such high levels of badness that I'm not sure if matters.

However, it may make a difference for women looking to avoid such an end. This result suggests that these women perceived drink spiking with a drug to be more of a risk than it actually was while underestimating the risk of simply drinking too much alcohol. So this additional information can help women protect themselves.
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  #16  
Old 28 October 2009, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MapleLeaf View Post
I don't know anything about the prevalence of roofies, and so I will take the article at face value. Let's say that it is exceedingly rare for women to be raped while intentionally drugged...

Is there a meaningful difference between raping someone after giving them a roofie and raping someone after they drink too much and are unable to consent? Either way you raped someone who was incapable of consenting.

Of course it gets tricky when both parties are super drunk (well, I don't think it's tricky - if both parties are too drunk, no rape occurred). But when one party is too drunk and the other is not, it's just as rapey as slipping someone a roofie and then raping them.
It sounds though, like some people are claiming that they have had their drinks spiked but not been raped. They are saying that the reason they became so ill, or acted so obnoxiously, or can't remember where their shoes are, etc., is that they must have been "roofied." I think that is the point of the article. People are blaming an exceedingly rare phenomenon for something that can easily (and correctly it appears) be explained by their excessive alcohol consumption.

ETA: There is no indication in the article that these people had been sexually assaulted. They were brought to the hospital as suspected victims of drink spiking, not suspected rape victims.

erwins

Last edited by erwins; 28 October 2009 at 05:15 PM. Reason: eta
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  #17  
Old 28 October 2009, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Amigone201 View Post
The taste part makes me wonder if this is possible, but my girlfriend was telling me last night of a truly infuriating practice that bartenders engage in (although it may be a UL).

Sometimes, a guy goes up to the bar and tells the bartender he's looking to score tonight, and asks if the bartender can help. The bartender then adds extra alcohol to the girl's drink to get her good and loose so she's more likely to have sex with him.
And then there's the fact that you can ask any bartender for a double and get twice the alcohol, with the added bonus that it all fits in the glass, and no one will think it's particularly unusual.

erwins
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  #18  
Old 28 October 2009, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Amigone201 View Post
The taste part makes me wonder if this is possible, but my girlfriend was telling me last night of a truly infuriating practice that bartenders engage in (although it may be a UL).

Sometimes, a guy goes up to the bar and tells the bartender he's looking to score tonight, and asks if the bartender can help. The bartender then adds extra alcohol to the girl's drink to get her good and loose so she's more likely to have sex with him.
I don't know if this is a counter-anecdote, but I did cocktail waiting for awhile, and that never happened--our bartenders were women, though.

As to Demon's point, glass sizes are not standardized, but a drink size should largely be. Some bars used measured pourers on their liquor bottles, too, so the amount of liquor will be more constant. Also, carbonated drinks have heads, which, if the mix isn't correct, may influence how much yield is in your glass. Oh, and cocktails that are mixed in a shaker may be measured properly, but transferring from the shaker to the glass can result in loss, as well.
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  #19  
Old 28 October 2009, 11:58 PM
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as an aside about the "bartenders giving a guy extra booze in the drink" the bartenders i know are allowed only so much "spillage" above and beyond what is in the bottle. one company i used to work for even produces a POS system which links up to scales on which the bottles sit and measures how much is in there, how much an ounce of booze weighs (every brand is unique in this respect and the database of weights is large) and any extra is taken out of the bartenders tips for the night.

So it's more likely that the guy goes tup to the bar says i'm looking to score, the bartender then makes it a double or triple, charges appropriately, and his hands are clean of the situation. if the bartender is a woman, a guy asks for a double or triple, and gives it to the lady as a regular drink.

that being said I have an anecdote, my wife was drugged when we were just newly engaged, we were celebrating in Red Deer at her old haunt, she had only 2 drinks and started a 3rd, (smirnoff ice) by the time she wanted to go home, she was acting drunk and was having blackouts, she was a pretty heavy drinker, so for essentially 2 shots of vodka to get her to this point, was odd. I assumed she had some tequilla shots or something else when she went off to talk to friends and have a dance or two. she wasn't able to get back home that night, she was up until 8:00 am vomitting. After that she had no hangover.

It was later revealed, through conversations with the bouncers (who she is friends with, she used to be there 4 nights a week drinking) that her abusive ex, recently paroled from an assault conviction, (and breaking conditions of his parole by being there), was at the bar that night, around the time of her foray on the dancefloor. the bouncers knew he wasn't supposed to be there, and knew the history of him and my wife (my wife was the reason he went to jail), and kicked him out, but he was hanging out near the table where she put her drink while she was dancing. Was he seeking revenge? we don't know but we haven't been to that bar much since, only on special occasions. and when we do I hold her drink whenever she leaves the table and she only drinks in my presence.

was it a drugging? who knows. i just know that 2 drinks does not make my wife black-out, or get so sick she can't sleep.
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  #20  
Old 29 October 2009, 12:57 AM
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I have an anecdotal story of someone who I know was drugged too. She was taken to the hospital by a friend, tested, and shown to have been drugged. I have no reason to doubt the four people who were with her at the bar that night, or her parents who talked to the doctors.

I have no problem believing that it's more likely for women to think they were drugged when they really drank more than they thought or it affected them more than they thought it would. I do, however, feel some hesitation at labeling date-rape drugs "urban legend." This study, with such a small sample and in only one area isn't enough proof against roofies.
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