There are no ugly women, only poor women

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by Milkshake

I don't see a need to send someone to therapy because they'd want bigger/smaller breasts or something like that.

If you are going to do surgical intervention for no reason, I think it should be required.

[justusfour]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

Gotcha. the whole thing started with the "getting your figure back" thing, which, to me, doesn't indicate a bit of extra exercise for a specific area. It translates to the constant diet/exercise programs you see advocated in women's mags.

Pssh. Then I should've been more clear. Those are just infuriating, and you're correct that most of those have unrealistic goals.

[ThistleS]

Those of you who feel very strongly about natural beauty, what do you think about tattoos? I don't just mean how you feel about them aesthetically- do you think they are as indicative of low self esteem as plastic surgery? Do you think they take away from natural beauty as much as surgery?

[Cervus]

Originally Posted by ThistleS

Those of you who feel very strongly about natural beauty, what do you think about tattoos? I don't just mean how you feel about them aesthetically- do you think they are as indicative of low self esteem as plastic surgery? Do you think they take away from natural beauty as much as surgery?

It depends on the person and the tattoo. I don't think they're indicative of low self-esteem, but I've known some people who got them because all their friends were doing it. While I can see beauty in some tattoos, I do think many of them take away from a person's natural beauty, at least as I see it. It's hard for me to explain this because I honestly don't mean to insult people who have tattoos. But tattoos are a sexual turnoff for me. It has no bearing on my friendship or respect for a person, but I have no desire to have sex with someone who has tattoos or piercings. (There's a lot of other physical attributes I don't desire in a sex partner, either. It's not just tattoos or piercings.)

[justusfour]

Originally Posted by ThistleS

Those of you who feel very strongly about natural beauty, what do you think about tattoos? I don't just mean how you feel about them aesthetically- do you think they are as indicative of low self esteem as plastic surgery? Do you think they take away from natural beauty as much as surgery?

Well I got mine across my tummy because it was "cool". Yeah it's real friggin cool now that I've had two babies and you can no longer tell what it is!

I personally don't think it's a sign of low self esteem. YMMV of course.

[ThistleS]

Not that I don't appreciate your responses, but neither of you had expressed the same shock and revulsion that some other posters have about plastic surgery. Perhaps you are shocked and repulsed though.

[Nonny Mouse]

Originally Posted by ThistleS

Those of you who feel very strongly about natural beauty, what do you think about tattoos? I don't just mean how you feel about them aesthetically- do you think they are as indicative of low self esteem as plastic surgery? Do you think they take away from natural beauty as much as surgery?

A tattoo is to plastic surgery as a nice mural in the living room is to major renovations. The point isn't to change something that's wrong, it's just to add a bit of extra visual interest.

As to whether they detract from natural beauty, it depends on the tat in question. Sometimes they detract, sometimes they enhance.

Nonny

[Em]

Originally Posted by Xia

My hair takes at LEAST 20 minutes to dry completely with a hair dryer. I have a lot of it. Of course, I VERY rarely use a hair dryer, I just don't wash my hair in the morning, I do it at night and then squeeze- and air- dry my hair. Unfortunately if I wait too late at night I end up with damp hair in the morning anyway...

Originally Posted by Cervus

My hair takes 8 hours to completely dry without a hair dryer.

I do have a hair dryer but it takes me 20 minutes just to get my hair past the dripping-wet stage. It would probably take at least an hour to get my hair reasonably dry with a dryer, but I'm not going to sit there and try. I always wash my hair at night and let it dry while I sleep.

Originally Posted by Xia

The 20-minutes is for reasonably dry (partially damp). I'm not actually sure how long it takes for my hair to get COMPLETELY dry with a hair dryer because I don't even attempt it. My arm gets tired!

Originally Posted by Toys For Big Boys

I let my hair air-dry. I give it 10 minutes with the hairdryer, then let nature do the rest.

After reading these comments, I timed myself when I got out of the shower this morning: Slightly less than a minute to towel-dry both hair and body + 45 seconds with the hairdryer = dry hair. I didn't time my moisturiser/sunscreen and deodorant application, but they wouldn't have been more than another minute or two. I've always said I wouldn't have the patience to deal with long hair, but I had never realised exactly how much more patience I would actually need.

[Anyte]

For the most part, I think the people from the extreme makeover site look better in their after pictures than the Swan after picture. They still look, mostly, like themselves, the people who had nose jobs didn't all end up with the same generic "nose" plus the pageant look does nothing for me, so that's a factor.

Then there's this guy. He went from "being mistaken for his two year old child's grandfather" to being mistaken for the creepy uncle.

I'm not opposed to cosmetic surgery, heck I had LASIK done. But there's a point where it makes things worse* instead of better and the number of surgeries these people had is, IMO, excessive. I don't think "extreme" is a good thing when you're talking about surgery.

There's such a thing as bad plastic surgery, or too much plastic surgery. Joan Rivers, I'm looking at you. Marg Helgenberger, ditto. I've been watching the old CSI episodes on Spike and I miss her old face.

[Cervus]

Originally Posted by ThistleS

Not that I don't appreciate your responses, but neither of you had expressed the same shock and revulsion that some other posters have about plastic surgery. Perhaps you are shocked and repulsed though.

In general I'm opposed to cosmetic surgery that "fixes" something that isn't broken. Usually, in the case of low self-esteem or body dismorphic disorder, plastic surgery only fixes the symptom, not the disease. I'm not bothered when someone who was mutilated or scarred in an accident wants to looks "normal" again. I am bothered when someone, like the women in the show, submits to radical plastic surgery in an attempt to "fix" themselves to conform to a cultural beauty standard or because they have low self-esteem. I know it's none of my business and I shouldn't be bothered, but I have talked several people (including my mother) out of various cosmetic surgeries. In most cases I think they're pointless.

Plastic surgery probably would be a turn-off for me. It would depend on why the person had it done. It certainly wouldn't be a turn-on, though.

[Lainie]

Originally Posted by Anyte

I'm not opposed to cosmetic surgery, heck I had LASIK done.

That's not the first reference I've heard to LASIK as cosmetic surgery, but it never struck me that way. It may have cosmetic effects if one doesn't like the way one looks in glasses, but LASIK corrects a vision deficit. That's not cosmetic surgery, IMO.

Marg Helgenberger, ditto. I've been watching the old CSI episodes on Spike and I miss her old face.

Her lips look very odd to me, now. The craze for artificially thickened lips can't end soon enough for me.

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by Cervus

In general I'm opposed to cosmetic surgery that "fixes" something that isn't broken. Usually, in the case of low self-esteem or body dismorphic disorder, plastic surgery only fixes the symptom, not the disease. I'm not bothered when someone who was mutilated or scarred in an accident wants to looks "normal" again. I am bothered when someone, like the women in the show, submits to radical plastic surgery in an attempt to "fix" themselves to conform to a cultural beauty standard or because they have low self-esteem. I know it's none of my business and I shouldn't be bothered, but I have talked several people (including my mother) out of various cosmetic surgeries. In most cases I think they're pointless.

Plastic surgery probably would be a turn-off for me. It would depend on why the person had it done. It certainly wouldn't be a turn-on, though.

Cervus expresses exactly what I feel.

As far as tatoos/peircings, I see them as the makeup of the body alteration world. They are fun, but they quite often are used to express personality and individuality. IMHO, that makes them the exact opposite of plastic surgeries, the point of which is to normalize the person as much as possible.

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by Lainie

That's not the first reference I've heard to LASIK as cosmetic surgery, but it never struck me that way. It may have cosmetic effects if one doesn't like the way one looks in glasses, but LASIK corrects a vision deficit. That's not cosmetic surgery, IMO.

Agreed. I'll probably have it when my vision stabilzes, but it has nothing to do with the apperence of me in contacts and everything to do with me being legally blind. It's pretty darned close to a disability and it's expensive.

Originally Posted by Nonny Mouse

A tattoo is to plastic surgery as a nice mural in the living room is to major renovations. The point isn't to change something that's wrong, it's just to add a bit of extra visual interest.

Nonny

That is officially the best explanation of tats I have read yet.

[ThistleS]

Thanks for the responses. I don't see tattoos as all that different from a lot of plastic surgery. Personally I have tattoos because without them I felt naked and wrong. Permanently altering your body for decoration is a pretty serious step, no matter how lightly people take it. Plastic surgery is definitely more dangerous than tattoos, but it's no less permanent, and it's not necessarily done for worse or better reasons. I don't exactly disagree with what you folks are saying about plastic surgery, though.

[ShockDingo]

Originally Posted by BringTheNoise

Anyone else thinking "they looked fine in the first photo, but in the second they look like generic Hollywood wannabes?"

That's exactly what I was thinking. I've noticed that there are a lot of women in hollywood whose identities that I kinda haze over due to them looking sort of similar. These women all had their own charm, and plus this is a really really misleading style the photographer chose; all of these women look like they just woke up. If they really wanted to be effective they should have broke things down like this:
-Old look in "plain mode" vs new plastic surgery in "plain mode"
-Average wear vs average wear

I mean this is comparing women in fancy clothing to women who look like they just all woke up..

Another thing I noticed is each woman had her own bit of personality with their features; different smiles, different body language, whatever. But now, they all have the "doomable doll teeth" and whatnot; they all have some sort of static look to them, and that's just weird, because due to different genetics they should have differnt bone structures, skin tones, hair quality etc. That's what I like in women, the differnt quirks and features that they can call their own!

These things...they're part of a new race...I can tell! Soon, the major power players of the world will fall and be replaced by eternally smiling-pastel wearing puppets with all too perfect teeth capable of gutting a red wood! Soon Barbie will reveal her true form and take her throne that is the world! Don't you get it?! Illuminati Barbie wasn't just some quirky thing shelfed by Mattel! Heck, if they've done their job right none of you'll remember such a product. The end is near!....uh Uh..cough...sorry