There are no ugly women, only poor women

[snapdragonfly]

Originally Posted by TuFurg

So are you saying if someone styles their hair in a way different from the "dried off post-shower look" that it's unnatural? I would just call that "kept" and yes, I'd register that under natural.

As far as eyes and lips ya got me there, I should not have used the word "exactly" but again- just because a woman wears makeup does that make her "unnaturally unattractive"? Or was that judgement made here because we know what the women looked like beforehand?

Perhaps the guy just doesn't like makeup on a woman, nothing wrong with that, I was just curious about the comment.

I do a bit of styling and a reasonable amount of makeup most days. Some days it's very minimal.

But to look like those women - that's 2 hours of hair and makeup and by a professional stylist.

[Anyte]

The frightening thing is how similar they look in the after shot. Perhaps bad lighting or something, but they're all rather orange, not a natural color for any humans I know or know of. Tuesday evening, I spent about 2.5 hours having my hair lightened and highlighted, so I'm not against "improving on nature" in principle. That having been said, several of these women look terribly unnatural, unattactive or both. The orange complexions are so frightening to me that I've actually saved the photo and turned it greyscale. They look better already. I also found a website that tells what was done to each woman, not including diet, exercise and therapy. Actually, these may not be complete lists, most of them are phrased as "procedures included" meaning they had at least the following done.

From left to right:
Marnie - Face: Brow lift, Mid-face lift, Lower eye fat removal, Nose job, Corner lip lift, Lip augmentation with injections, Chin lift
Body: Breast augmentation, Liposuction - abdomen, thighs, calves and ankles
Dental: Zoom bleaching, Bridge, Veneers, Deep cleaning

Kelly - Face: Endobrow lift, Lip Enhancement, Liposuction of the chin and cheeks, Photo Facial, Micro Dermabrasion, Collagen treatment in the Lips and Nasal labial folds, Laser hair removal, Lasik
Body: Breast augmentation, Liposuction of the back, calves, ankles, thighs, buttocks and knees
Dental: Zoom bleaching, Partial DaVinci Veneers, Root canal, Repair cracked teeth, Deep Cleaning

Belinda - Face: Brow lift, Mid-face lift, Fat transfer to lips, Liposuction to lower eyes & cheeks, Dermatology, Lasik
Body: Breast reduction, Breast lift, Liposuction of the inner & outer thighs, knees, flanks and hips
Dental: Zoom bleaching, Bridge for front teeth, Veneers, Gum tissue recontouring, Deep cleaning, Root canal

Cindy - Face: Nose job, Endoscopic browlift, Mid face lift, Cheek fat removal, fat removal under her eyes, Lip augmentation, Liposuction, Chin refinement, fotofacial, Laser Hair Removal, Collagen, LASIK eye surgery,
Body: Breast augmentation, Liposuction of inner thighs, Tummy tuck

Beth - Face: Endoscopic brow lift, Nose job, Lip enhancement, Chin liposuction, LASIK
Body: Breast augmentation, Tummy tuck, Liposuction in the calves and ankles
Dental: Teeth whitening, Veneers, Gum surgery, Lower orthodontics, Deep Periodontal cleaning

Merline - Face: Brow lift, Upper lip lift, Lower eyelid fat removal, Chin liposuction, Fat transfer to cheeks, Lasik eye surgery
Body: Breast augmentation, Tummy tuck
Dental: Zoom bleaching, Veneers, Gum Surgery, Root canals, Decay removal, Deep cleaning

Rachel - face: Nose job, Lip enhancement, Chin implantation, Endobrow lift, Liposuction chin and cheeks, Blue light treatment, Microdermabrasion
Body: Breast lift, Liposuction of the stomach, flanks, inner thighs, outer thighs and back
Dental: Zoom bleaching, Full DaVinci veneers, Deep cleaning

Cristina - Face: Brow lift, Eye lift, Nose job, Liposuction chin and cheeks, Dermatological visits, Collagen, Lasik
Body: Tummy tuck, Breast augmentation, Liposuction of her thighs
Dental: Zoom bleaching, Full DaVinci veneers, Gum tissue recontouring, Deep cleaning

Sarina - Face: Brow lift, Mid-face lift, Lip augmentation using fat injections, Upper eyelid fat removal, Mole removal, Fotofacials, Lasik
Body: Liposuction of the flanks, knees, thighs, calves, ankles and abdomen
Dental: Zoom bleaching, Gum tissue recontouring, Deep cleaning, orthodontics for lower teeth straightening

[White Canvas]

It's interesting that several of these woman needed some pretty serious, non-cosmetic dental work which the show provided.

I don't have television (not that I'd watch this). Do the contestants just turn themselves over to the show to do what they will to them, or do they have some input about the alterations? Seems like they would have to sign a release for each procedure.

[Esprise Me]

Originally Posted by Brrrtje

You can always tell Americans by their smiles. The 'I'm not really glad, but by Jove I'll show off my gums even if I tear my lips to pieces' smiles. Julia Roberts looks positively scary with that crocodile mouth of hers, but we get the same movie-poster-photos nonetheless.

Oh. Ehm. No insults intented for any Americans, of course. Except if you're Julia Roberts.

Oh, none taken; I completely agree. As an American, I have a special talent for smiling even when confined in close quarters with Europeans. Because they always reek, you know? You can always tell Europeans by their smells. The 'I don't need to shower or use antiperspirant because I'm not part of the imperial American hegemony' smells. I once shared a cab with a Dutch woman, and she smelled positively scary.

Oh. Ehm. No insults intended for any Europeans, of course. Except if you smell.

(In case it wasn't blatantly obvious, I was being sarcastic. Brrrtje, you can dislike certain aspects of a culture, but you should not assume that everyone under that cultural umbrella embodies those characteristics. And you certainly shouldn't assume the size of someone's teeth or the width of someone's mouth tells you anything about that person's character.)

[AliBaba]

Heh heh. I wrote:

Yegods. I'm trying to think of a way for this to be more insulting, and I can't. Perhaps the OP should read: "There are no ugly people, just people that don't conform to our ridiculously arbitrary and individual standards of beauty."

And HansOff, you said:

Curious set of responses.
So no one thinke that they look better in the "after" picture?
FWIW I think that people now have a tendancy to give a knee jerk reaction indicating that any intervention in a look is a bad thing.
Look again at them individually.
I don't think (g) you are allowing youselves to be subjective about it.

Congratulations on figuring out a way to make this even more insulting. So not only does "more make-up, bigger boobs, longer hair" automatically equal "more attractive" for everyone, those of us who say otherwise are lying to everyone else or kidding ourselves?

Thank you for straightening us out on this. We were so confused, you see...



Ali "just be yourself; the best, cutest, quietest version of yourself" Baba

[Starla]

Originally Posted by White Canvas

I don't have television (not that I'd watch this). Do the contestants just turn themselves over to the show to do what they will to them, or do they have some input about the alterations? Seems like they would have to sign a release for each procedure.

IIRC, and I never watched the show but I read & watched a lot of commentary about it, each contestant had to sign off on each procedure. I remember some talk about how one contestant refused breast augmentation (I'm guessing it was Sarina, based on the procedure list Antye posted and the fact that she has noticeably smaller breasts compared to the others in the after picture) and she was warned it would compromise her chances of winning the beauty contest at the end.

[Beachlife!]

Originally Posted by AliBaba

...Congratulations on figuring out a way to make this even more insulting. So not only does "more make-up, bigger boobs, longer hair" automatically equal "more attractive" for everyone, those of us who say otherwise are lying to everyone else or kidding ourselves?...

I must be kidding myself, because I don't find more make-up, bigger boobs, or longer hair to be more attractive. None of those attributes does anything to change my opinion of a women in a postive way. It is impossible shallow in my way of thinking to find someone more attractive because they got a boob job and troweled on the make-up.

Beach...but then again I've said before that Pamela Anderson and Anna Nicole Smith have never been attractive to me...Life!

[Enchanting_eyes]

Did they really have to do so many cosmetic procedures on these women?

I think a few would have been ok, but did they need to remove fat from under the eyes?

Show em a few makeup tips, how to style there hair differently, how to choose clothing for there body shape and things like that would have done much more wonders for these women then any of the cosmetic surgery. This is besides having there teeth worked on,

Originally Posted by BringTheNoise

Anyone else thinking "they looked fine in the first photo, but in the second they look like generic Hollywood wannabes?"

I'm another of those. I'd count a couple of the "before"s as pretty (and Kelly Alemi particularly), and none of them as ugly. I kind of find Kelly still attractive, but all I have to do is look at that horrible, artificial cleavage and it puts me right off.

But want to know what I think is the most insidious and horrible aspect of their plasticising? Look at the comparative skin colours of Cindy Ingle and Christina Tyree. Don't they look awfully white in the "after" pics? I don't care whether it's due to skin-bleaching, make up or retouching the photo afterwards, I think it says something very, very bad about a society where the lightness of skin is an indicator of "beauty".

Ryda Wong, EBfCo. said:
I think we can all agree that a daily prepairation process that takes more than an hour, not including a shower, is pretty excessive.

An hour? And here was I thinking you weren't a girlie girl. Try 5 minutes. Well, for actually "excessive" I'll give you 15. But an hour? That's a lot of time, really.

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by trollface

An hour? And here was I thinking you weren't a girlie girl. Try 5 minutes. Well, for actually "excessive" I'll give you 15. But an hour? That's a lot of time, really.

Well. Taking into account that, those mornings when it is below zero, your hair freezes if you don't dry it, 30 min. is reasonable. But, yeah. Excepting shower and coffee, about 10 min. or so, on average.

[Xia]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

Well. Taking into account that, those mornings when it is below zero, your hair freezes if you don't dry it, 30 min. is reasonable. But, yeah. Excepting shower and coffee, about 10 min. or so, on average.

My hair takes at LEAST 20 minutes to dry completely with a hair dryer. I have a lot of it. Of course, I VERY rarely use a hair dryer, I just don't wash my hair in the morning, I do it at night and then squeeze- and air- dry my hair. Unfortunately if I wait too late at night I end up with damp hair in the morning anyway...

[Cervus]

Originally Posted by Xia

My hair takes at LEAST 20 minutes to dry completely with a hair dryer. I have a lot of it.

My hair takes 8 hours to completely dry without a hair dryer.

I do have a hair dryer but it takes me 20 minutes just to get my hair past the dripping-wet stage. It would probably take at least an hour to get my hair reasonably dry with a dryer, but I'm not going to sit there and try. I always wash my hair at night and let it dry while I sleep.

[Xia]

The 20-minutes is for reasonably dry (partially damp). I'm not actually sure how long it takes for my hair to get COMPLETELY dry with a hair dryer because I don't even attempt it. My arm gets tired!

[Toys For Big Boys]

I let my hair air-dry. I give it 10 minutes with the hairdryer, then let nature do the rest.

[TuFurg]

While I do see the points on what's the norm, I find it hard to believe that alot of people would walk into a formal gala or the like and say that the woman are all unattractive based on the fact that they're all made up... that's just me though;-)

Originally Posted by TuFurg

While I do see the points on what's the norm, I find it hard to believe that alot of people would walk into a formal gala or the like and say that the woman are all unattractive based on the fact that they're all made up... that's just me though;-)

There's "made up" and then there's "looking like a mannequin caked in layers of grease".

[Ms. K]

Originally Posted by TuFurg

While I do see the points on what's the norm, I find it hard to believe that alot of people would walk into a formal gala or the like and say that the woman are all unattractive based on the fact that they're all made up... that's just me though;-)

I "put my face on" if I'm going out for dinner. That means I look a little nicer than usual, but it's not super-obvious I'm wearing makeup.

The makeup I'm seeing in the "after" pictures? It's too much. It looks caked on, and greasy, and almost clown-like.

I mean, how much makeup does one need, even under television lights?

[TallGeekyGirl]

this post deleted by the author... move along... nothing to see here.

[Toys For Big Boys]

Originally Posted by trollface

There's "made up" and then there's "looking like a mannequin caked in layers of grease".

:applause:

For the caked-up-mannequin look, I'd suggest you go to the make-up counters in any department store. The Clinique girls are all a suspicious shade of orange.

[Lunasa]

I watched parts of the show when it was on, in a train wreck sort of way. Cringed the whole way through it. If you want to spend lots of money on surgery, alter yourself every way imaginable, then fine. But they spent chunks of the show saying 'you're not a bad person, you're not an ugly person, all you need is some self confidence'. Then they suggest implants, face lifts, etc etc throwing every surgical procedure they could at them. Why not skip the plastic surgery? Very few of them needed any surgery (I think one might have had scars, but I don't remember).

Do teeth, hair, makeup, therapy, wardrobe, poise, fitness and diet. Make them appreciate who they are, don't twist them to what they think society expects them to be. That totally defeats the purpose of the rest of it.

One other detail of the show, the contestants weren't allowed to see themselves or their families for the entire 3 months of the show. No mirrors at all. Wiki gives more details.