Ma'am

[bthyb]

I hate being called "ma'am." If someone does, I get angry, and I think less of that person.

I'm not sure why it irritates me so much; perhaps it's the "older woman" aspect of it (or that's how I percieve the term). Apparently it's still considered polite by society and is used rather often; I've been called "ma'am" once this week and once last. This was upon first interacting with both people, and I don't wish to interact with them further. However, while this is one reason it's not the only reason - so perhaps I'm using it as a barometer for some human characteristic. Or I'm letting it color my perceptions completely.

[Tarquin Farquart]

For once I wish someone would call me "Sir" without adding "You're making a scene".

[JoeBentley]

The problem is we don't have any neutral ways of referring to someone upon first meeting when you don't know their name and/or what.... err title I'd guess you say, they prefer.

We have to have something to default to.

[JoeBentley]

Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart

For once I wish someone would call me "Sir" without adding "You're making a scene".

That is one of my favorite Simpson lines of all time. Out of hundreds of wonderfully quotable lines from that show that one is probably in my top 5.

[Syllavus]

The boys who bag my groceries will occasionally call me "Ma'am", it does give me a little bit of a twinge. I'd much prefer to be called "Miss", whether I'm married or not.

[Tarquin Farquart]

Originally Posted by JoeBentley

That is one of my favorite Simpson lines of all time. Out of hundreds of wonderfully quotable lines from that show that one is probably in my top 5.

I don't know about favourite, but it makes me laugh every time I hear it. Plus it was appropriate for this thread.

[bthyb]

Originally Posted by JoeBentley

The problem is we don't have any neutral ways of referring to someone upon first meeting when you don't know their name and/or what.... err title I'd guess you say, they prefer.

We have to have something to default to.

I see your point - I would prefer we'd default to asking what someone's name is and using that. Actually, I'd prefer they offer their name, ask mine, and then use it. Part of what irks me is the impersonalization of the whole thing.

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

I confess. I tend to call anyone above the age of 12 i don't know well (or even those who I do know well but are "above" me) "ma'am" or "sir"

Simply put, answering a question with just "Yes" or "No" feels really rude and curt to me and I can't do it. It doesn't matter if you are younger than me, older than me, richer than me, poorer than me, have a better job than me, or have a "worse" job than me etc., etc.

You get called "ma'am" or "sir."

I had that literally beaten into me from childhood, and it's nearly impossible to break.

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by bthyb

I see your point - I would prefer we'd default to asking what someone's name is and using that. Actually, I'd prefer they offer their name, ask mine, and then use it. Part of what irks me is the impersonalization of the whole thing.

That's an awful lot of time for a quick exchange.

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by Syllavus

The boys who bag my groceries will occasionally call me "Ma'am", it does give me a little bit of a twinge. I'd much prefer to be called "Miss", whether I'm married or not.

And, see, "Miss" to me seems derogatory and supercilious. You only use Miss when you are speaking to a child or if you are stuck up and speaking to an underling.

[Tarquin Farquart]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

And, see, "Miss" to me seems derogatory and supercilious. You only use Miss when you are speaking to a child or if you are stuck up and speaking to an underling.

People who say "Miss" probably would also use "garçon"

[Syllavus]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

And, see, "Miss" to me seems derogatory and supercilious. You only use Miss when you are speaking to a child or if you are stuck up and speaking to an underling.

Funny, I don't get that from it at all, I would have that reaction to the term, "Missy", but not to Miss.

Having the bag boys say, "Have a good day Miss" doesn't strike me at all as derogatory, but when they say, "Have a good day Ma'am" I feel danged old.

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart

People who say "Miss" probably would also use "garçon"

LOL! Exactly.

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by Syllavus

Funny, I don't get that from it at all, I would have that reaction to the term, "Missy", but not to Miss.

Well, "Missy" certainly would be, but that tends to be applied to uppity young women who sass you or who don't know their place.

"Miss" is what you call a woman of a class "beneath" you.

[JoeBentley]

Originally Posted by Syllavus

The boys who bag my groceries will occasionally call me "Ma'am", it does give me a little bit of a twinge. I'd much prefer to be called "Miss", whether I'm married or not.

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

And, see, "Miss" to me seems derogatory and supercilious. You only use Miss when you are speaking to a child or if you are stuck up and speaking to an underling.

See this is what I meant. We have to agree on some default phrase that I can use to address someone that isn't going to get my head bit off.

I'm not Professor X. I can't read minds and magically know how people want to be addressed. We need default phrases that people don't have to like, but at least have to accept with being insulted by them.

[Lainie]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

Well, "Missy" certainly would be, but that tends to be applied to uppity young women who sass you or who don't know their place.

"Miss" is what you call a woman of a class "beneath" you.

A regional difference, I suspect. Where I come from, it's what you call a woman to whom you wish to show respect, but who is young, especially younger than you. It would be unusual, where I grew up, for someone to call a 20YO woman "ma'am," but a clerk or other stranger might call her "miss," as in "Excuse me, miss. . ." or "May I help you, Miss?"

Although we both seem to use "Missy" the same way. See also: "Miss Thing".

[Canuckistan]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

And, see, "Miss" to me seems derogatory and supercilious. You only use Miss when you are speaking to a child or if you are stuck up and speaking to an underling.

That's my impression of it. I understand it's not everyone, but it's why I'm not averse to calling someone ma'am. Or miss. Or dumb@$$.

Depending on the circumstance, of course.

[Mama Duck]

Originally Posted by bthyb

I see your point - I would prefer we'd default to asking what someone's name is and using that. Actually, I'd prefer they offer their name, ask mine, and then use it. Part of what irks me is the impersonalization of the whole thing.

Part of what I like about it is the impersonalization. I don't want to get to know every random person I have to interact with. And if we keep it polite and formal, I don't have to worry about having to chat up yet another person I'm pretty sure I won't like either.
Besides, I got over the "ma'am" thing quick when I started getting "senora". That will make you feel old, ...respected, but old.

[Syllavus]

Originally Posted by Lainie

A regional difference, I suspect. Where I come from, it's what you call a woman to whom you wish to show respect, but who is young, especially younger than you. It would be unusual, where I grew up, for someone to call a 20YO woman "ma'am," but a clerk or other stranger might call her "miss," as in "Excuse me, miss. . ." or "May I help you, Miss?"

Although we both seem to use "Missy" the same way. See also: "Miss Thing".

I'm wondering if it's a regional thing because my impression of the terms is pretty much the same as yours Lainie. Miss is a term of respect for a younger woman, Ma'am is the term of respect for an older woman.

[Tarquin Farquart]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

LOL! Exactly.

And this is why waiters and waitresses are riddled with repressed rage.