Sunderland vs Liverpool - A Balloon SCORES

[jw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsRvL...eature=related

After a fan threw a beachball on to the pitch, Sunderland's Darren Bent scored this bizarre goal as they beat Liverpool in an English premiership game last Saturday.

The Sky Sports team were beside themselves after the goal.

[Johnny Slick]

So I understand that it's a fairly obscure rule and all, but if you're the ref wouldn't the simple spirit of fair play make you say "okay, that goal is not going to count"? Maybe give the opposition an indirect free kick or something similar since it was so close to being a score (well, actually it looked to me like the goalkeeper was going to catch it before the beach ball, but I know how rare even a shot on goal is) but allowing it was... wow.

[Andrew of Ware]

The rule that says the goal should not have been allowed is actually very prominent. Some people are saying that it is one of the biggest refereeing howlers of recent times. The referee has been suspended or - to put it in the quaint terms of the Football Association - 'rested' from Premier League matches and been demoted to the football league. Once anything comes on to the field of play that should not be there - whether it be object, animal or human - play should be suspended.

Beach ball ref given rest (BBC report)

His mistake has been widely criticised by a number of his former colleagues with Jeff Winter, Dermot Gallagher and Graham Poll all stating their surprise at the error.

Graham Poll is, I believe, the man in charge of refereeing for the Premiership. Normally he is very defensive of referees, but not in this case.

[Tarquin Farquart]

It's been a good week for balloons.

[jw]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...ol/8312966.stm
Sunderland's manager Steve Bruce said afterwards,

Having found out what had actually happened, he said: "If you really know that rule then you are a little bit sad.

Having done the associate referees badge a few years ago, I knew of the rule (well not specifically the ballon deflection, but the bit about outside interference, which this clearly was). When I saw this on Saturday, I was astounded that the goal was let stand.

[stalker]

I prefer the quote in this article.

if anybody knew that rule - that it is supposed to be a dropped ball - then you are a saddo

I was at the game, but was with the Sunderland fans behind the other goal. To us it just looked like Bent shot, the ball disappeared in a crowd of players for a second and then appeared in the back of the net. We only found out about the beach ball at half time.
I'm surprised at the rule. If any outside interference should be classed as a drop ball, how come when the ball hits the ref, it's play-on? Surely the ref should be classed as outside interference when it comes to affecting the ball?

[Jay Tea]

Originally Posted by stalker

I prefer the quote in this article.
If any outside interference is should be classed as a drop ball, how come when the ball hits the ref, it's play-on? Surely the ref should be classed as outside interference when it comes to affecting the ball?

I'd say it was because it's something that happens on a regular basis so it's just a case of 'get on with it'. Funny though how you seldom see your team cannon a pass off a ref into a favourable position - usually it just ends up mullering the move

As for the beach ball, that was hilarious. Not only because of the flabbergasting manner in which the goal stood, but also because it was a Liverpool toy on the pitch - utterly hapless

At least Benitez didn't moan, it would have shallow given the pasting Liverpool took regardless of the illegal intervention. A nice spanking by Lyon in the CL should leave them vulnerable to a spot of United revenge come the weekend.

[snopes]

Originally Posted by Andrew of Ware

The rule that says the goal should not have been allowed is actually very prominent. Some people are saying that it is one of the biggest refereeing howlers of recent times.

I blame Obama. And the Democrat party.

[jw]

Originally Posted by stalker

I'm surprised at the rule. If any outside interference should be classed as a drop ball, how come when the ball hits the ref, it's play-on? Surely the ref should be classed as outside interference when it comes to affecting the ball?

The ref is part of the game! Also referees are meant to be unbiased, so it's not as though he/she would be passing the ball to one side or the other. That said, IRC at one junior game when the referee got in the way of a clearance that resulted in a goal against us and later in the game blocked a goal bound shot that denied us an equaliser. We went on to lose that game 3-1.

[Jay Tea]

Originally Posted by jw

That said, IRC at one junior game when the referee got in the way of a clearance that resulted in a goal against us and later in the game blocked a goal bound shot that denied us an equaliser. We went on to lose that game 3-1.

Told ya!

I just got 5-1 on Lyon winning at Anfield tonight.

[Stoneage Dinosaur]

This was one of the main topics for discussion on Saturday night, and I was surprised by the attitude of Newcastle fans, they all thought it was hilarious as apparently they dislike Liverpool even more than Sunderland.

Now, it could be that this anti-Liverpool sentiment is shared by only a few Newcastle fans, or is there more to it than that? In fact I get the feeling that I'm so out of touch I've missed Liverpool becoming the most hated team in the country.

ETA: The conversation took on a more surreal air when someone claimed that a low flying zeppelin deflected a goal in the German cup final of 1902, hence leading to teams there introducing spiked helmets to their strips...

[Andrew of Ware]

The most successful teams in football have always been hated - witness the Arsenal team in the 1930s who attracted large crowds whenever they played away, but mainly in the hope that they would lose. I know Liverpool haven't won anything major recently, but they are still regarded as one of the 'Big Four' and so their fall from grace has been greeted with glee.

Now if Manchester United, Arsenal or Chelsea were to suffer like Liverpool then there would be joy unending among the football supporters in England.

Originally Posted by Stoneage Dinosaur

ETA: The conversation took on a more surreal air when someone claimed that a low flying zeppelin deflected a goal in the German cup final of 1902, hence leading to teams there introducing spiked helmets to their strips...

I doubt that this is one UL that snopes will be investigating.

[stalker]

Originally Posted by jw

The ref is part of the game!

Yeah, but he's there to keep people within the laws of the game, not to accidentally influence it.

Also referees are meant to be unbiased, so it's not as though he/she would be passing the ball to one side or the other.

I doubt the Liverpool crest covered beach ball was biased either way really though
I'm not saying that the outside influence rule is wrong, just that the ref and linesmen should be included as part of it.

Originally Posted by Stoneage Dinosaur

This was one of the main topics for discussion on Saturday night, and I was surprised by the attitude of Newcastle fans, they all thought it was hilarious as apparently they dislike Liverpool even more than Sunderland.

Now, it could be that this anti-Liverpool sentiment is shared by only a few Newcastle fans, or is there more to it than that? In fact I get the feeling that I'm so out of touch I've missed Liverpool becoming the most hated team in the country.

After spending Saturday with a load of Sunderland fans it's probably not shared by all fans. The hatred for The Mags is far deeper than any hatred of Liverpool.

Actually, I was quite surprised by the lack of segregation. There was a block of empty seats and a row of stewards to the left of the Liverpool fans, but on the other side they were sharing stairs and only separated by a sparse line of stewards every few steps!

Originally Posted by Andrew of Ware

The most successful teams in football have always been hated - witness the Arsenal team in the 1930s who attracted large crowds whenever they played away, but mainly in the hope that they would lose. I know Liverpool haven't won anything major recently, but they are still regarded as one of the 'Big Four' and so their fall from grace has been greeted with glee.

Now if Manchester United, Arsenal or Chelsea were to suffer like Liverpool then there would be joy unending among the football supporters in England.

You could be right. Sat in a pub in Islington watching a Liverpool v Chelsea or Man Utd game, the vast majority of the pub will be cheering on Liverpool. Most other games and they're cheering on the other teams.

I seem to remember that there was a survey done a while ago where Liverpool came out as the most supported 2nd team in the country*. Maybe Rafa's winging (although I was impressed with his comments at the weekend) has turned that around and they're now everyone's most hated 2nd team

* I couldn't quite get the wording right. I mean that more people supported them as a 2nd team than any other.

[Floater]

I have never heard of the rule referred to (and I don't think I even care), but in ice hockey if a player happens to break his stick it will just lie there on the ice until the match is stopped for some reason. Then it will be removed.

[Lambda]

Originally Posted by Jay Tea

Told ya!

I just got 5-1 on Lyon winning at Anfield tonight.

Not a bad result. Quite a few upsets tonight.

[Ulkomaalainen]

There was a similar incident in last year's UEFA cup semi final match between Hamburg and Bremen, though not as decisive as here. Still the German press went all over it.

The story being: Hamburg had to play eternal arch rivals Bremen four times in a span of three weeks: the semi finals of the national cup, the semi finals of the UEFA cup and a regular league match (with Hamburg still having chances of becoming champion). Hamburg lost the German cup semis on a penalty shootout, next were the UEFA cup matches, where Hamburg won in Bremen 1-0, but Bremen reversed that score with a 3-2 win in Hamburg to go through on the away goal rule. One of these three goals was a result of a small paper ball on the field, which made the ball jump unexpectedly.

That's where the similarities end, however. The incident occured when Hamburg was already trailing 1-2, so needed a goal, after 80 minutes, plus the ball did not go into goal after the deflection, which just turned a somewhat safe pass into a corner kick, from which Bremen scored. Hamburgs 2-3 came later in extra time, there's no way of knowing whether they would have scored otherwise.

Still, as said, the German media was blowing it out of proportion and all over it, given the circumstances around this encounter. I dunno, how the ref could have handled this differently. Even a ref's ball from said position could have resulted in a goal against an already losing Hamburg side.

(Bremen went on to win the league match as well, Hamburg barely qualified for the Euro league this season due to an offside goal in extra time on the last matchday, Bremen ended up in no man's land, but went on to win the national cup. They lost the final of the UEFA cup, however, to Shakhtyor Donezk from Ukraine, who incidentally had a similar lineup than Hamburg and Bremen with their arch rivals Dynamo Kiew - cup semis, UEFA semis plus league match within three weeks.)

Scene in question on YouTube

About the ref "hitting" a ball: the referee is considered "air" in practical soccer, deflecting balls from the ref are not that uncommon and considered bad (or good) luck. Cannot find a cite in the rules about it, though. It's more like common knowledge (but then: the Italian offside at the last Championships of the player lying outside of the field came as a surprise to many common knowledgers).

[jw]

Originally Posted by Jay Tea

Told ya!

I just got 5-1 on Lyon winning at Anfield tonight.

After your prompt yesterday, I went out and took this on too. However, you must have started a rush, as I could only get 4:1 with Paddy Power.

Ta for the heads up. I had a few celebratory jugs last night!

[Jay Tea]

I picked up the tab last night in a fit of largesse inspired by Lyon's last minute heartbreaker. Gawd knows what the odds of Barca going down at home to that rabble were before the game

Tonight's cherry is 16-1 for Maccabi haifa to upset La Vecchia Signora in Turin.

[Jay Tea]

The Ol' second division is looking interesting at he moment - Newcastle doing hteir best to choke (no win in 4), % straight wins for Forest, Blackpool and Preston NE (two clubs close to my heart) right in the mix at the top. I'd love to have been in the Ipswich dressing room to see Roy Keane after Watford nicked a last minute equaliser last night

[Dactyl]

Originally Posted by Stoneage Dinosaur

TNow, it could be that this anti-Liverpool sentiment is shared by only a few Newcastle fans, or is there more to it than that? In fact I get the feeling that I'm so out of touch I've missed Liverpool becoming the most hated team in the country.

In my circle Liverpool is known as the COSP - City of Self Pity. Most seem to enjoy watching them lose.

[quote=Andrew of Ware;1073200I know Liverpool haven't won anything major recently, but they are still regarded as one of the 'Big Four' and so their fall from grace has been greeted with glee.
[/QUOTE]

For me, it's partly that they are included in the big four. They have NEVER won the Premiership. Second division Leeds have won the top-tier more recently than the Scousers.