Swine Flu Shots Revive a Debate About Vaccines

[snopes]

Anti-vaccinators, as they are often referred to by scientists and doctors, have toiled for years on the margins of medicine. But an assemblage of factors around the swine flu vaccine — including confusion over how it was made, widespread speculation about whether it might be more dangerous than the virus itself, and complaints among some health care workers in New York about a requirement that they be vaccinated — is giving the anti-vaccine movement a fresh airing, according to health experts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/16/health/16vaccine.html

[snopes]

A New York State judge has suspended a health regulation that would compel hundreds of thousands of health care workers and hospital volunteers to be vaccinated for seasonal and swine flu.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/17/ny...17vaccine.html

[Insensible Crier]

Way to cave into the nut jobs and give them leverage for their cause. It's not like health care workers get exposed to people with diseases and then come into contact with other people, some of whom who are sick or have compromised ability to fight off disease. Oh wait...

[ET1 (SS)]

Well okay so they are 'nut jobs'.

The science and methodology of vaccines is based upon theory of ho wwe think it works.

Has there been double-blind placebo-controlled studies? and where are they published?

Is there in fact mercury used as a preservative within vaccines?

These claims are made, yet not responded to.

The only 'response' seems to be "Don't worry, vaccines are safe".

[RLS]

Actaully ET1 most of the questions posed by the anti vaccinators have been answered numerous times by numerous studies. Heck in the first article it responds to the questions with more than don't worry be happy. The answers are just not what they want to hear so they ignore them. After my morning caffeine I will do a little searching for you.

[ganzfeld]

Originally Posted by ET1 (SS)

The science and methodology of vaccines is based upon theory of ho wwe think it works.

Theories that have developed and stood up very well, even after more than a century, during which time thousands of vaccines have been developed and used on billions of people.

Has there been double-blind placebo-controlled studies? and where are they published?

Try Google Scholar.

Is there in fact mercury used as a preservative within vaccines?

If Thimerosol were an issue then the halt of its use in regular childhood vaccines should have led to some change in the effects it was supposed to have. But it didn't. Most probably because it has no meaningful effect. In any case, no, it is not used in most vaccines any more.

These claims are made, yet not responded to.

Yes, they have been addressed and responded to hundreds of times by qualified professionals.

The only 'response' seems to be "Don't worry, vaccines are safe".

I'm getting to the point where I kind of wish that were the only response.

What specific claims about vaccines do you want to address? The information is there if you're willing to look at it.

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by snopes

A New York State judge has suspended a health regulation that would compel hundreds of thousands of health care workers and hospital volunteers to be vaccinated for seasonal and swine flu.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/17/ny...17vaccine.html

This should work out well for those who are immune compromised who need to seek health care treatment in NYS.

I suggest that perhaps some people shouldn't be allowed to treat patients.

Also, HepB vax has been required for health care workers since the 90s at least. Do these people get to opt-out of that, too?

You work in a scientific field, people; use the science!

[Canuckistan]

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

You work in a scientific field, people; use the science!

Science is hard! Do you have anything easier?

[geminilee]

I would argue that there is a subset of people with a very valid reason not to get the various flu vaccines; when they do, they are more likely to get the flu than to develop antibodies for the flu. However, I would think that those people wouldn't be likely to work in health care (because they will get the flu.)

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by geminilee

I would argue that there is a subset of people with a very valid reason not to get the various flu vaccines; when they do, they are more likely to get the flu than to develop antibodies for the flu.

Do you have a cite for that? Because everything I have read states you cannot get the flu from the flu vaccine.

Some get flu-like symptoms, but not the flu.

[geminilee]

Alas, it appears the only cite I can come up with is the tried-and-trusty "I could have sworn", possibly edged with a little bit of FOAF. By now I should know better han to do that here, at the very least; I certainly wouldn't have let something like that go by. TY for the correction.

[Mama Duck]

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

Some get flu-like symptoms, but not the flu.

I thought most, if not all, flu vaccines used dead viruses. So what AnglRdr said.

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by Mama Duck

I thought most, if not all, flu vaccines used dead viruses. So what AnglRdr said.

FWIW, the flu mist is a live virus, but is attenuated. Even with that, though, people do not get the flu from flu mist.

Here's the CDC fact sheet I was quoting from ealier.

[Lainie]

The presence of live virus in the nasal-spray vaccine is, I believe, the reason that it is given only to health adults. Because we have asthma, DD and I cannot receive the nasal vaccine.

[AnglRdr]

Healthy children can also get the mist.

[Ali Infree]

I was trying to find a link to a local TV news story about a mercury compound, thimerosal, being in the H1N1 vaccine. Magically, it has disappeared off their web site.
This station has run a series of skeptical stories about the vaccine, never reporting that there are risks for younger people as noted in this thread. I wonder if Legal has gotten a hold of them and talked them into other scary topics--like the economy.

Alli "responsible journalism, huh? Huh?" Infree

BTW: I had the seasonal virus vaccine last Wednesday, I got chills and went to bed early and that was that.

[UEL]

Originally Posted by geminilee

I would argue that there is a subset of people with a very valid reason not to get the various flu vaccines; when they do, they are more likely to get the flu than to develop antibodies for the flu.

Around here, the public has been told that only people with allergies to eggs are ones that could be at risk. Apparently, eggs are the medium in which the vaccine is produced.

[ET1 (SS)]

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

Do you have a cite for that? Because everything I have read states you cannot get the flu from the flu vaccine.

Some get flu-like symptoms, but not the flu.

hmm,

During my 20+ year Active Duty Naval career, I received nearly every vax known to man. Often I got them repeatedly.

With every flu vax shot that came out, we were always advised that getting the flu shot would give is 'flu-like' symptoms if not the flu itself. But that after suffering through those flu symptoms we would be better and stronger as we would have those antibodies within us.

And as I recall every time that we did get a flu-shot, we did have men laid-up sick from the shot.

Many times it was me who got the flu symptoms from having a flu-shot.

So if men are laid-up sick with the symptoms of flu: fever, headache, muscle aches, chills, extreme tiredness, cough, runny nose, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. And it lasts for 3-days up to a week long.

So how would it differ if they had the 'real' flu? or not just flu-like symptoms?

[Insensible Crier]

Originally Posted by UEL

Around here, the public has been told that only people with allergies to eggs are ones that could be at risk. Apparently, eggs are the medium in which the vaccine is produced.

Yes, they use eggs like incubators to produce the vaccine. I friend of mine is recommended against getting one because of this. If they start making them with peanuts then he's double screwed.

[snopes]

Untested? No.

Rushed into production? Not really.

Full of substances that do harm? Hardly, and especially not compared with the dangers of the H1N1 flu virus.

That is the retort of researchers, scientists, federal health authorities and others familiar with how swine flu vaccine is being made, as they listen -- at times with disbelief -- to the debate about it unfolding around kitchen tables and online.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,5238400.story