The death of a discussion board

[Malruhn]

I am SO frustrated and angry. I was sad, but now the flames of anger are burning my bottom parts.

Several years ago (10?) I was a member of a discussion board that was almost all Coast Guard members and our spouses/children - and retirees. Things were going along well, when a couple members started getting way out of hand. It got so bad (since the two were high-ranking, they weren't banned), that the board shut down for several months before it was resurrected.

Six months later, it all happened again. This time, the offenders were banned, and the board went on hiatus for several more months. The third time, the site owner got fed up and closed the entire thing down, selling his database to a non-denominational military site that was MUCH bigger (think Wal*Mart of the web).

The ring-leader was temp-banned four or five times before getting perma-banned. He came back like last night's chili over several years before the mods understood that they could ban individual interweb addresses from reaching them - and he hasn't been back since - though is sycophantic partner remained (much less acidic than he was, since he wasn't being egged on!).

Enter 2006 when a new site opens for senior enlisted folks and within a year, the ring-leader is there, posting his rants and venting his spleen at whomever will stoop to his level - and then he runs to report them to both the Mods AND their commands (damned tattle-tale!). He got perma-banned, and then allowed back on (some "perma", eh?) and banned again, and again...

Finally, they created a special board just for him that was the ONLY place he could post. He cuts and pastes other people's posts in the other boards, and then rips them to shreds without any of the niceties that we use here. He calls people "idiots" and "retards" and "illiterate bastards" but when people come back to tell him that he's making generalizations or is being "mean", he calls it a "personal attack" and demands the Mods remove the "offender." This guy has been banned from EVERY discussion board of which he's been a part - and doesn't understand that the only commonality is HIS activity (yes, he's bragged about his bannination history - and bemoans how unfair everyone is to him).

Now, his partner in crime has fallen off the deep end and is doing the same stuff on the main boards. Not only that, when he sees offense in ANYTHING, he gets on the interwebs and finds the person's unit contact info - and reports them to their unit commanding officers.

The Mods are now threatening to shut the site down, or eliminate entire classes of members (retirees) in retaliation.

Why are some people so unwilling to do what is necessary to keep a board running? Why are some Mods lazy? Why are some posters stoopud (too stupid to spell it correctly!!)??

I just feel a need to vent. It is SO frustrating!!

[Troberg]

Set up your own board, and try to get the good users to join it. When it's your own board, you can ban the bad seeds as much as you like.

It's not hard, there are many free/cheep hosts that you can use, or you can set it up on your own server if you have a connection that can handle it.

[JessBoo]

Originally Posted by Malruhn

...Finally, they created a special board just for him that was the ONLY place he could post. He cuts and pastes other people's posts in the other boards, and then rips them to shreds without any of the niceties that we use here. He calls people "idiots" and "retards" and "illiterate bastards" but when people come back to tell him that he's making generalizations or is being "mean", he calls it a "personal attack" and demands the Mods remove the "offender."

Sounds like people need to stop replying to his posts.

[PallasAthena]

Yeah, why are they feeding the troll?

[Mama Duck]

What everyone else said. What happens when you ignore him? It's difficult at first. But think of it this way. My 3 year old will occassionally throw a temper tantrum over some imagined unfairness. The only way to get him to stop and calm down is to ignore the temper tantrum completely. Don't respond, don't reason, don't give any indictation that it's bothering you or indeed that you hear it at all. The toddler, without an audience, stops and becomes more reasonable or finds a suitable activity. Might I suggest treating your resident troll as if he were a toddler? It might actually work.

Oh and lots of you need to pressure the mods to ban this guy's address.

[Ramblin' Dave]

I saw the exact same thing happen on a board I used to frequent. I wish I could offer some advice from that experience, but the only thing I learned was that unless the vast majority of the community shuns the trolls, they will keep right on spreading their filth and will eventually take over the whole site (because most of the nicer folks will stop participating). I second the suggestion of either creating or joining a different site. When you're in charge, you can ban the trolls, after all.

[Mad Jay]

THe thing about trolls is in any board there's always some people who ignore the "Don't feed the troll" sign, and feed the troll anyways. And the trolls are good at finding the troll-feeders. They just find where people's buttons are and they push it and they push it. The troll-feeders need to be dealt with along with the troll himself. a) the troll needs to be kicked out and b) If some people can't help getting charged up, they need to be put in the quiet corner for a while

And give him his own board?! WTF is that? COngratulations! YOu just gave him his own soapbox!!

[Malruhn]

One of the big problems is cultural. With senior enlisted folks in the Navy and Coast Guard, once you make Chief Petty Officer, there is an old saying, "Once a Chief, Always a Chief." Well, these guys are Chiefs... and the mods are loathe to reneg on that time-honored saying.

And as Mad Jay says, the ring-leader is truly a master at trolling as he described. I've caught myself MANY times in the throes of writing a scathing reply - and realizing that he'd just like it. It's kind of like a bee-keeper that swats at the hives... not to get any honey, but just to see all the bees swarming about.

The band-wagon troll is much less intelligent and subtle. He jumps on totally irrelevant things in posts and goes off on tangents...

"Mad Jay, the sexual connotations in finding buttons and pushing and pushing are totally inappropriate and I will be contacting your boss to tell them what kind of deviant sexual behavior you promote on open discussion forums!!"

And the Mods don't want to do anything about it. They've threatened to ban ALL retirees - for the actions of two. I'm just waiting for SOMETHING to happen. I may have to, sadly, walk away.... or is that "walk away sadly"??

[Mad Jay]

Originally Posted by Malruhn

One of the big problems is cultural. With senior enlisted folks in the Navy and Coast Guard, once you make Chief Petty Officer, there is an old saying, "Once a Chief, Always a Chief." Well, these guys are Chiefs... and the mods are loathe to reneg on that time-honored saying.

That's the problem right there. The Mods are afraid to be Mods. An online community has it's own hierarchy (and even if it usually very flat, it's still a hierarchy) If the people who are higher up are afraid to to do their job, then it's all going to fall apart. You need to find Mods who aren't afraid to wield some authoritah, or you need to find a Mod who is high ranking himself.

[DawnStorm]

Originally Posted by Ramblin' Dave

I saw the exact same thing happen on a board I used to frequent. I wish I could offer some advice from that experience, but the only thing I learned was that unless the vast majority of the community shuns the trolls, they will keep right on spreading their filth and will eventually take over the whole site (because most of the nicer folks will stop participating). I second the suggestion of either creating or joining a different site. When you're in charge, you can ban the trolls, after all.

The same thing happened to a horse racing board I used to frequent. Really sad too, because it used to be a really enjoyable place to be.
I now hang out on a racing board that is by invite only; many of the people there are also expats from this other board. It's a shame that one or two people have to ruin it for everyone else.

[daisyslegs]

Happening to me as well. This was a well loved board for people with movement disorders. The troll and her crew were banned again and again until they finally closed the board. I took it into my own hands and opened my own site. I was so very dedicated to it being secure that it turned people off. It seems to me that folks LIKE the stupid stuff, it makes it interesting or something.

I just can't abide by people looking for emotional support for a physical disorder being attacked and tortured verbally by such jerks. One woman had a 6 year old daughter with a very sever brain disorder and had several surgeries that had not helped. She had one last chance at brain surgery that might save the little girl's life. These bastards attacked her telling her she was cruel to put her daughter through another surgery and accused her of being abusive by even considering it. It doesn't help to know that they would have said the same thing if she had decided not to go forward with another surgery.

So I did, I put up my own site. I'm so fed up with the little issues and and ready to drop it and say F off. But when I read the logs where people have said that my site and the people there have saved their lives and I know more than once it is literally meant... so I'm still at it. Trolls need to get their asses kicked.

[DesertRat]

Makes you even more grateful for this board and its mods, huh? Snopes.com...an island of rationality in a sea of mindblowing stupidity.

[daisyslegs]

Originally Posted by DesertRat

Snopes.com...an island of rationality in a sea of mindblowing stupidity.

Sounds like the perfect tag line.

[UEL]

Malruhn,

Seeing as how you have, unfortunately, decided to leave that board, why not leave in a memorable manner. If I were leaving that board, I would expose the activities and lay bare the actions of the few. Do it respectfully, but leave no doubt that this has made the board a poisoned environment. Call out the trolling behaviour, identify the fact that people have been inadvertently sucked into feeding the troll, that real life politicking and power issues have found their way onto the board and back into real life, and that the moderators have done little to improve the experience for the population.

It may lead to a serious flaming from the two, but it would be a self-fulfilling message. It may demonstrate to others what is going on.

If you keep it dignified and respectful, it is hard for others to dismiss out of hand, and may resonate with people.

In total, though, I feel for you. Another board I scan from time to time has so much potential, but overly draconian moderators that are trolls themselves.

I would like to echo DR's comments. I like it here.

[rhiandmoi]

One of my regular boards had so many people getting banned and put on time out, that the trolls actually started *their* own board where they rip and tear to their hearts content. And I mean these trolls are serious about rip and tearing. I took a peak at the troll board, and it was just too boring for me.

Are any of the good members Chiefs? I think you guys need a high ranking mod to lay the beat down on these trouble makers, even if that is their only moderating duty.

[Malruhn]

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi

Are any of the good members Chiefs? I think you guys need a high ranking mod to lay the beat down on these trouble makers, even if that is their only moderating duty.

I think that's part of the problem. The trouble-makers are Master Chiefs (E-9's), as are all the Mods - even the board owner.

UEL, as much as I'd like to flame out, the Coast Guard community is WAY too small to do something like that... and the last time I tried to flame out of another board, I was perma-banned and accused of being a troll and a poser and had a full-fledged investigation launched against me, trying to prove my record was fraudulent. Lucky for me, I'm paranoid and don't embellish my sea-stories (or land-stories from my time with the Army), and in the end the accusers were politely asked to leave the site (while I never went back).

I think just a quiet bowing out is called for... and then delete the bookmark. *sigh*

[BoKu]

What would happen if every post on the board in question were open to Google search (as I think is the case with this board)?

[Malruhn]

It is. You just need approved membership to post... and you need to pay to get into the "super-secret-squirrel" room where they don't want prying eyes. I say "they" because when that place was created, the owner demanded money ($12/yr), so I happily declined. The "Room" to which the ring leader was banished has a password, but they provide it on the site... I guess in an attempt to keep people from inadvertantly wandering in and being offended.

I'll make up my mind this weekend. I'm thinking that the decision is made, I just don't want to admit it...

[DawnStorm]

Originally Posted by DesertRat

Makes you even more grateful for this board and its mods, huh? Snopes.com...an island of rationality in a sea of mindblowing stupidity.

We are spoiled.

A gardening site I go to used to be run by one person and if a poster got out of line, this person would send you straight to the Walt Disney World website whenever you'd hit the reply button. Everything would be fine, but instead of seeing your reply, you'd see Sleeping Beauty's castle. Unfortunately, the person got real petty and was sending everybody to the Disney site for the slightest little thing. It would be like someone here asking for a cite and getting sent to DW just for asking. The kicker was that this site had a subscription rate of about $15/year.
The person eventually sold the site and that doesn't happen any more.

[SplishFish]

Originally Posted by Malruhn

One of the big problems is cultural. With senior enlisted folks in the Navy and Coast Guard, once you make Chief Petty Officer, there is an old saying, "Once a Chief, Always a Chief." Well, these guys are Chiefs... and the mods are loathe to reneg on that time-honored saying.

"Once a Chief, Always a Chief. But on this forum, you're a jerk."

Splish "not mutually exclusive" Fish