Large Dogs in Public Housing Are Now Endangered Species

[snopes]

In New York City’s public housing projects, a ban on pit bulls and other large dogs went into effect May 1.

The ban, one of the strictest for any public housing authority in the country, prohibits residents from keeping pure-bred or mixed-breed pit bulls, Rottweilers and Doberman pinschers, as well as any dog, with the exception of service dogs, expected to weigh more than 25 pounds when grown.

It has divided tenants and outraged animal welfare groups.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/23/nyregion/23dogs.html

[Cervus]

25 pounds is not a large dog! A "large" dog, by veterinary standards, generally weighs 80 pounds or more.

If they're going to impose a size limit, why single out certain breeds? Pits, Rotties, and Dobermans all weigh more than 25 pounds. (And let's not get started on the "dangerous breed" nonsense.) Singling out these breeds in addition to a weight limit just shows ignorance.

[landmammal]

I would think a ban on unaltered dogs would be more useful since most dog bites come from unaltered males and that would also solve the problem of unwanted puppies.

[Cervus]

Originally Posted by landmammal

I would think a ban on unaltered dogs would be more useful since most dog bites come from unaltered males...

Can you provide a cite for this? I've been working with dogs since I was 18 (in veterinary clinics, kennels, daycare, and pet-sitting) and while I believe that intact males are more likely to show aggression to other dogs, my personal experience is that females (regardless of condition) are more likely to show aggression to strange humans in their territory. However, dogs bite out of fear as well as out of aggression, and people who do not know how to read dog body language may not realize the difference. I suspect that fear bites are more common than aggression bites. I also believe that spaying and neutering definitely reduces dog-on-dog aggression, but I don't believe it has much effect on dog-on-human aggression. However, I don't have a cite; this is just my belief based on years of personal experience around thousands of dogs.

[landmammal]

There's this here.

I'll see if I can find it from a more trustworthy site too. I know I've seen it many times in articles about dog bites and prevention.

[Steve Eisenberg]

Originally Posted by Cervus

If they're going to impose a size limit, why single out certain breeds? Pits, Rotties, and Dobermans all weigh more than 25 pounds. (And let's not get started on the "dangerous breed" nonsense.) Singling out these breeds in addition to a weight limit just shows ignorance.

The city tried before to make a flat 40 lb. limit, but it wasn't being enforced. So they are upping the publicity and trying slightly different rules.

This thus is another attempt to get people to stop keeping intimidating dogs in small New York public housing apartments. The breeds were suggested as examples of dogs that get too big. While they could also have given Golden Retrievers or Great Danes as examples, perhaps there just weren't a lot of people buying Goldens and claiming they never heard of the rules, didn't know how big they grow, etc. These may be the general types of dogs where owners claim they didn't know.

Ideally, the rules would recognize that some very large gentle, low activity level dogs, coming from responsible temperament-concerned breeders, would be much more suitable for apartments than, say, a line of smallish border collies. But it is hard to enforce a rule that is too complicated against people who have so little care for their elderly neighbors in the next apartment that they would bring in a dog with an intimidating appearance (not to mention one that might be dog-aggressive).

On our block, there is a dog owner who has done a wonderful job of training a pit mix from the SPCA. That is, the dog has become wonderful with people. It still can't begin to get along with our dogs. Given that we live on a block of semi-detached homes, I have no problem with this -- we can keep our distance when walking dogs. But it would be a lot harder if we both lived on the same floor of an elevator building. I don't have sympathy with getting a dog with an uncertain temperament and/or an intimidating appearance, and then living in an apartment. People have to be told not to do this in language they will understand.

One sign of reasonableness on the part of the apartment bureaucracy is that if you get a puppy that can be expected to remain within 25 pounds, but it grows bigger than expectations, that will be allowed.

[Eddylizard]

I am assuming public housing is somewhat similar to our council housing - that is cheap homes provided to the poor by the local authority for a heavily subsidised rent.

I don't know how big a public housing apartment in NY typically is.

As I look around my current accommodation, it strikes me that it would be cruel to keep a dog here. There simply isn't enough space. It would get bored very quickly. Nowhere to wander for a start.

Despite the journo's playing up the breeds with a so called bad rep, maybe the authority are actually trying to prevent pets being kept in unsuitable conditions.

[LadyLockeout]

Originally Posted by Cervus

25 pounds is not a large dog!

Indeed. My male miniature schnauzer weighs 26.5, and he's not even up to my knees!

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by Eddylizard

As I look around my current accommodation, it strikes me that it would be cruel to keep a dog here. There simply isn't enough space. It would get bored very quickly. Nowhere to wander for a start.

I've often had large dogs in small apartments with wonderful results. My 60+ lb greyhound was the best apartment dog I've ever had. My 80 lb Smooth Collie has lived with me in shoeboxes before and did just fine. Dogs like mastiffs are noted for being very suitable in apartments. The idea that size determines what dogs do well in apartments is simply silly. Many large and medium breeds do far better in apartments than small and toy breeds, who tend to have alot of energy and a very "terrier-ish" attitude.

I HATE the ignorance that causes people to establish weight limits in housing.