Am I being unreasonable in dealing with my bank?

[KingDavid8]

Hey, everyone.

I'm in a dispute with my bank over some overdraft fees, and they're treating me like I'm just complaining over nothing, being "that guy" who made a mistake and am trying to get them to pay for it. I really don't think I'm being unreasonable, but I suppose that unreasonable people never think they are, so I wanted to run this whole thing past other people and get their opinion. Should I give this up? Am I "that guy"? I'll try to be as fair as possible to the bank's position on this.

I won't say which bank this is, but it's one of the twenty largest banks in the U.S.

Here's the situation - about a week ago, my 18-year-old daughter needed to make some online college-related purchases, but didn't have enough money in her account to cover them. I transferred about $100 from my account to hers. After transferring the money, the $100 was listed as "available" in her account (checks which are deposited, but haven't cleared yet, won't be listed as "available", but will be included in the general balance), so I told her it was okay to spend the money. She did.
The next day, her account is hit with two $36 overdraft fees. I e-mailed the bank asking about this, but then decided I wanted a quicker response, so I IM'ed with someone at the bank, asking them why she got the overdraft fees when I transferred the money prior to her making the purchases. The person I was IM'ing with explained to me that money which is transferred after 8 PM (as this money was) isn't applied to the account until the next business day, thus any purchases that are made prior to the next business day won't be covered. She told me that this is explained on the bank's website in the FAQ's. I checked, and, yes, it is explained there. But then I asked her why the money was counted as "available", if it's not really available. She just kept repeating that the money transferred after 8 PM isn't posted until the next business day, never really answering my question. She did return one of the $36 overdraft fees, hoping it would placate me, but refused to return the other. She kept asking me "Is there anything else I can do for you?", as if hoping I would just give up, just making me more and more annoyed.

At this point, I contacted the Better Business Bureau, and they said they would look into it, but asked me to try to work it out with the bank if I could. As of today, the BBB is still looking into this.

I then got a response from my earlier e-mail, again just explaining that transfers made after 8 PM aren't posted until the next business day. I sent a response, again asking why it's counted as "available" if it's not available, and again, they just said that transfers made after 8 PM aren't posted until the next business day, and if I'd read the FAQ's, I would have known that. I e-mailed them back, again asking why the money was counted as "available" if it's not available, saying that their website misled me into thinking the money could be spent safely, so they should be refunding the other overdraft fee.

Finally, I got a response to my question with the next e-mail. They're saying that "available" does not mean that it can be *spent*, just that it can be *transferred*. That if I wanted to transfer the $100 from my daughter's account back to my own, I could do that, but any purchases made won't be covered.

That doesn't make any sense to me. Does it to anyone else? When people see that such-and-such amount of dollars is "available" in their account, they normally think that it's okay to spend that amount of money. If the money is secure enough that it can be transferred to another account, then it's secure enough that it can be spent.

But in the meantime, what do you all think? Is it my fault because I incorrectly assumed the "available" means it's okay to spend and should have known that money transferred after 8 PM wouldn't be posted until the next business day? Or is it their fault for listing money as "available" when it's not? Should they refund the other $36, or should I give it up?

Be honest.

David

[Auntie Witch]

I would, at the very least, suggest quite firmly that if they want to stick by their guns (which seem to be documented clearly in other places), then they need to change their verbage to "pending transfer" or something similar to indicate that the money is not to be used. "Available for transfer" to me means pretty much the same as "available to spend".

[JessBoo]

That's ridiculous- 'available' means 'ready for use'. You're in the right.

[chocolate kisses]

You are in the right. Available means available. They should credit you the charges. If they insist the money is pending, it should not show up as available.

Money transferred after 8 pm is pending til the next business day but a payment transaction after 8 pm is immediate? I would think the payment transactions your daughter made after 8 pm wouldn't even arrive at the bank until the next day, way after the transfer cleared. It sounds to me like they are jerking you around.

(Dear MyCreditUnion, I love you! -chocolate kisses)

[llewtrah]

I agree that they need to say something other than "available". Put it to the BBB that the bank's choice of misleading wording, it is aimed at trapping customers into accruing overdraft fees. IMO, regardless of small print (which I doubt is shown next to the word "available"), if it states the money is "available" then it must abide by it being "available" . If it's not "available" it should use other wording.

[snapdragonfly]

There have been threads here already about the games banks play to increase their revenue by these little "gotcha" tactics.

Available is available.

I'd say yank your money out and NEVER do business with any of these 20 largest banks again and put it in a good local small bank or credit union but you need long distance transfer ability to your daughter so I don't know how that would work. I'd sure look at other options though and I'd tell them this little dance of theirs and their little repeating the bullshit rule as if repeating it over and over somehow makes it reasonable and fair is doing nothing but confirming to you that they are failing in fairness and customer service, big time.

Paypal is a good way to transfer money except it's definitely not instant. However, pay pal tells you right up front "It won't be available for a few days so PLEASE CHECK" and doesn't try to game you because pay pal doesn't have any incentive for you to overdraw.

I'd look at what the other options are though and try to find a better one.

[NayShel]

If you can find the time, I would suggest going to your local branch and talking to a manager or customer service or whatever they call those people that have their little corner offices in just about every bank I've ever been to. I had some luck with that approach last time I had overdraft fees. Explain the situation as patiently as you can and see if they'd be willing to concede that the problem is on their side and not only should your fees be refunded but their wording needs to be changed to avoid these types of problems.

If that doesn't work, I'll add my voice to the chorus saying it's time to move your banking to a local bank or credit union. I use a local credit union and am much happier with them than I was with the corporate bank I used to work with. Very few fees and I can do everything online or over the phone that I did with the big bank.

Good luck!

[Photo Bob]

What NayShel said.

You are in the right. Most banks will waive the fees as long as your account has been in good standing in the past. A face to face discussion wil often change the bank's attitude (once they see you as a human instead of a number with 'x' amount of money).

[Not_Done_Living]

i can't believe that an in branch account to account transaction would have a processing wait time. that is insane.

In Canada, we can do email transactions between two different BANKS with no wait using the Interact system.

You are certainly in the right here. (That is also a HEFTY overdraft fee.. at face value 36%!?!? That would be considered usery here.

[Suiren]

This also happened to be with Bank of America (I'm no longer with them). My mom, who had her name on my account while I was in college for this exact reason, deposited some cash before 2pm (their cutoff back then) so I could buy myself some groceries at college. Later that evening I looked at my account before I went and her money was in there, not as pending, and the total was reflected as available. So I went to Walmart and got groceries, and came right back, and checked my account again. Suddenly her deposit was gone, and my balance was negative and I had an overdraft. I called several times but there was nothing they would do, and they didn't even come up with a reason or excuse. I was furious, and left the minute I married my husband and moved onto USAA.

[Tootsie Plunkette]

Originally Posted by KingDavid8

They're saying that "available" does not mean that it can be *spent*, just that it can be *transferred*. That if I wanted to transfer the $100 from my daughter's account back to my own, I could do that, but any purchases made won't be covered.

And if you had decided to transfer it back right away, it would show as "available" in your account, but equally unusable by you. During the float time, it's "available" only to the bank. My bank (a big one that mentions a country in its name) does the same thing.

[imjustasteph]

What is a purchase, if not a transfer of money to someone else's account?

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

This type of shady accounting is one reason that banks are being called upon to reform their overdraft practices.

Banks make a great deal of money off of all the fees they charge you, and the overdraft structure brings in a ton.

This type of practice was what led me to leave the world of corporate banking, as lucrative as it would have been for me.

Stick to it. Demand to speak with a manager. they will refund your charges.

Then pull your cash and put it elsewhere.

[Jahungo]

Originally Posted by NayShel

If you can find the time, I would suggest going to your local branch and talking to a manager or customer service or whatever they call those people that have their little corner offices in just about every bank I've ever been to. I had some luck with that approach last time I had overdraft fees. Explain the situation as patiently as you can and see if they'd be willing to concede that the problem is on their side and not only should your fees be refunded but their wording needs to be changed to avoid these types of problems.

I agree with this. Go in person, and I'll suspect you will find more cooperation, since they can't just dismiss you out of hand (plus, you'll be more likely to be treated as a person if you are actually there with them). Of course, you will need to be willing to stick your guns on this and state your case a few time (if nothing else, to the front-line person and then the manager). But you are in the right, I agree - available means available.

[CSGirl]

We had a similar issue with a bank here when we first moved. DH went in in person, and they gave him a refund (they wouldn't over the phone). We then switched to a local credit union, and are MUCH happier.

[Chloe]

Originally Posted by Jahungo

I agree with this. Go in person, and I'll suspect you will find more cooperation, since they can't just dismiss you out of hand (plus, you'll be more likely to be treated as a person if you are actually there with them). Of course, you will need to be willing to stick your guns on this and state your case a few time (if nothing else, to the front-line person and then the manager). But you are in the right, I agree - available means available.

Go in person, and be polite and reasonable. If they do not offer to refund your charges, insist on speaking to the manager. If s/he cannot help, explain that you will have no choice but to make up signs that say" X BANK RIPS OFF ITS CUSTOMERS" for you and your daughter to carry as you march up and down outside. Show them your design.

[KingDavid8]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I will try going in person to a branch and seeing if I get better luck that way. I'll let you know what happens.

And we were already considering switching to a credit union anyway, so I think I'll take this opportunity to do so. But I do want to get my $36 back first.

David

[Beachlife!]

Originally Posted by KingDavid8

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I will try going in person to a branch and seeing if I get better luck that way. I'll let you know what happens.

And we were already considering switching to a credit union anyway, so I think I'll take this opportunity to do so. But I do want to get my $36 back first.

David

I'm coming in late, but I agree with what others have said. Honestly, it's ridiculous that money you transferred within the bank isn't available, but a merchant can get funds from without of the bank in the same time period.

I'd suggest working it up the line, always asking 'who else can I talk to?' until you get to the president of the bank.

And once you get your money back, MSUFCU is a great credit union.

[Embra]

I would add that if they refer you to their FAQ, "available" is a clear enough description that you would not have a question about it. If something seems clear on its face, you're unlikely to consider going to their FAQ section to look it up.

[Jenn]

Going in person and being polite but firm is the way to go. I recently had some problems with depositing foreign funds without them being held for 15 days. I'd been informed of their policies in three differing ways and it finally got to to a floor manager being involved while I explained how I'd been jerked around with three different conflicting excuses. I left not only with the funds available in my account, but also lower monthly fees.

More recently, there was a problem with my bank card information being compromised via a theft at a store I had shopped at. The bank was really on top of getting the account frozen and letting me know. I went to the branch for a new card and thought everything was fine. Two weeks later I checked my balance online and noticed that no activity had shown up since the date my previous card had been frozen. One lengthy phone call later it was discovered that the card I was given and had programmed my PIN onto was linked to someone else's account. For two weeks I had been spending the money of some guy named Cody who lived on the other side of the city. I had to make a lengthy visit to a branch to get it sorted out. Polite but firm. The transactions were corrected and I had an itemized list of transactions of what I had spent out of Cody's account (which they had not wanted to give me), a better interest rate on my savings account, and a new guaranteed income investment plan. I'm also pretty sure the woman who gave me access to Cody's account was fired, too.