Daughter wants to quit high school, get GED

[Lainie]

My 17YO DD wants to quit high school and pursue her GED before going to college.

The background is, her charter school, which she originally loved, has changed quite a bit since she was a freshman -- the student body has changed, which has changed the general atmosphere. She doesn't feel it's as welcoming and accepting (which is what she originally loved about it), and this has left her feeling alienated, frustrated and even angry. She's not interested in finding another school, and knowing what her options are, I don't really think it is, either.

She seems to think that her deciding she wants to do this makes it a done deal, and is annoyed at my explaining that she needs to slow down, do some research, let me do some research and thinking, talk to some people, etc.

So -- any thoughts? Arguments for or against her approach? Tradition alone, BTW, is not an argument, since neither of us considers it very important. Anybody know somebody who's taken that route? Have alternatives/compromises to offer? Wanta come drink with me, or take my DD on an extended vacation so I can get a NFBSKing break?

[AnglRdr]

I will definitely come drink with you.

My only experience is that of a former GED prep tutor for women in jail, so I haven't taken the test myself. It did seem to me that the test was a crap-ton more difficult than anything I did in high school.

Also, some universities have age stipulations on accepting GEDs in lieu of high school diplomas, or rather, make it difficult to be admitted without taking the required courses.

Is she a junior or senior this year?

[Logoboros]

What kind of college is she considering? I can imagine that some admissions officers would not look favorably on such a course of action. And even schools that don't necessarily view this negatively may well ask for an explanation. I'd recommend that your daughter attempt to write a really convincing essay explaining why this was the right choice for her before she does it. If she has trouble articulating the feelings of alienation and why those are a problem, then she might not be able to make the case effectively to an admissions or scholarship officer.

[NayShel]

My first question was - will colleges accept a GED? Found some answers in this article. It indicates that she will still likely need to take her SATs and may need letters of recommendation, possibly more depending on the college. Perhaps if she already knows where she wants to go, you could contact that college/univeristy and ask them. Maybe also talk to her school's guidance counselor and even the principle or superintendent to see what your options are. I know my high school had an alternative program that suited some stuidents much better. They can be known to be more for the wild kids but every district is different.

Good luck and good for you for being open to alternatives!

ETA: I like Logoboros idea of having her write up an essay about it

[katikate]

My experience with my friends who dropped out and got the GED has not been so great. I know down here its called the "Good-Enough-Degree" and its looked down upon with disdain. And F_F is right, it can cause limitations for what schools she can get into.

JC was homeschooled and thus has a GED, but he always wanted to be an electrician, so it didn't pose such limitations as if he wanted to be a doctor or something. Not that electricians aren't as smart as doctors, but y'all understand what I'm saying.

If it was me, I'd recommend she just try and tuff it out. Gotta think long term and all that, ya know?

[Magdalene]

Why is she feeling alienated? Is she truly alienated, or is she going through teen-age angst where she feels the whole world is against her, but next month she'd be fine? Is is more than alienation (is she being harrassed, bullied, etc?)

Alienation, I'd likely tell her to stick it out and see what she could do to change that. Bullying or harrassment, I'd want to know the entire story, but I might be more inclined to let her switch schools for that.

Is she a junior or a senior? How have her grades been so far?

Magdalene

[mags]

I personally think she should stick it out for another year, being able to deal in a place you aren't particularly happy will be good practice for the future.

I also agree she might want to skip the GED if she is planning on college, unless she has a better answer for admissions as to why she quit school for it.

If she has no intention of college though, I think it would be a fine course of action, especially if she is ready to find a job and move out.

There don't have to be any lasting effects of getting a GED. My SO got his and didn't attend college, and he had a nice career as a CG effects artist before writing his own software, quitting his dayjob, and running his own sucessful software company the past several years. (I on the other hand did graduate in the top 10 of my highschool, with honors from a respected college, and worked about five months in my chosen field before leaving it behind)

[Wild Redhead]

I quit high school in my senior year to get my GED. I regret dropping out. I was a B+ to A student. Graduating is an accomplishment I wish I had. I didn't regret it right away but I wish that I had that High School Diploma. I have other diploma's, one from Cosmetology and one from SCC for my two year Business Associate Degree but they just make me wish I had that High School diploma.

Stopping just because one is dissatified isn't the answer. I think it is a very important life lesson that she stay with it. She needs to learn you can't just quit when something doesn't go the way you want. We all have to make the best of less than perfect situations. She will be so proud of herself when she comes out on top.


BTW: I dropped out to get my GED because I had a baby I needed to support. I wish my choice could have been different.

[snapdragonfly]

Well, for the average person, IMO, based on 47 years of my casual observation (meaning I have no cites for this ) a GED on it's own merits and without any further training, is marginally better than no diploma at all, but on it's own, is pretty much good for menial labor and maybe if lucky, Walmart jobs. At best.

However, the two GED success stories I know used a GED strictly as a shortcut to get into college and once you are in college it doesn't matter much how you got there. My brother was frustrated and unhappy with his high school (same snobby Austin school that Dubya went to, only he was a poor child from Married Student Housing and was treated like crap by all including teachers) so he got a GED and then entered an electrical engineering vocational program at A&M. (I don't think they still have that program) That got him a good engineering job but he decided he hated it and went back to regular university at UT and got his bachelors in government. Then he decided he wanted to be a paralegal so he took the UT paralegal course. (they don't have that program either.) He became a paralegal and liked law so he applied to law school and graduated from Case Western Reserve and passed the bar in both California and Texas - getting the second highest score in the case of his Texas test - and going back to work for the large firm he paralegalled at.

So, it didn't matter at all in the long run that he had a GED instead of a diploma.

In the case of my cousin, she was too busy doing drugs and being a dysfunctional person and a hippie and following her dreg boyfriends around the country to finish school, but she straightened out for a while, grew up, got her GED, then went on to get her associate's degree in commercial design and worked for about 7 years very successfully in the field. Then she went all to hell again with the substances, but as far as a GED, it got her into the higher education she needed and had it not been for her issues, she'd have been quite successful.

Everyone else I know with a GED doesn't use it as it doesn't take a GED to get arrested, have a worthless boyfriend, sit around the squalid trailer whining about how nobody will help you and sponge off of your relatives to cover the necessities of life such as beer and DVD's that the welfare checks don't quite cover. (no disparagement meant to people on assistance in general, just to these particular relatives of mine who would almost turn the most liberal of socialists to a raving libertarian after 2 days of their company.)

I'm sure your daughter is more like my brother and I would say, that as long as it's qualified with the full intention of using a GED to get into further schooling and not to try to use as a substitute for a high school degree (which isn't worth jack doo doo for a job either) that for some people, it's a good way to avoid a couple years of frustration and wasted time at a high school that is a terrible fit for them.

It really depends on the kid. Some kids fit into high school and do real well. Others just really don't, and most of the time schools can only really suit the needs of the average kid. Those who are just different (different learning styles, personalities that just don't work in a traditional class, too smart and bored, etc) sometimes just don't thrive in high school and as long as they have an alternate goal, I think there's really nothing to be gained by another year or two of misery.

I'd be pretty freaked out if my kids went that route, though, just because of the kind of loser connotation and stigma of a GED - barely above that of a dropout - so that's something to be prepared to deal with and overcome. But as I said, once you have that college degree nobody gives a damn how you got into college.

My opinion, for what it's worth.

eta: points others have made, such as checking to be sure you can get into the college you want with a GED, are very valid - things might have changed a lot since my brother and cousin, some 20 years ago. I'd be sure to research the alternatives carefully before jumping off the cliff to make sure she can implement her alternative.

Also there is something to be said for sticking it out. But it might be okay not to. It's really going to come down to the individual and her situation. I'm just saying it doesn't have to doom one to being a loser, AS LONG AS there is a well thought out alternative plan and drive and ambition. My brother was ambitious - he just hated his school and there were no other high school options and he was smart enough and MATURE enough to be in college level courses at 17. ~and what the others said about why she is feeling this way and if it's likely to be temporary, or not, I agree with that too.

[Lainie]

She's a junior. I don't know how permanent the feelings of alienation are, but I'm confident she's not being bullied.

She was already planning, and is still planning, to take the SAT and ACT. She has a school in mind -- Columbus College of Art & Design -- and they do take GED applicants if they have good SAT/ACT scores, essays, recommendations, etc.

I like the essay idea very much. I've already told her she needs to talk to at least two trusted adults (approved by me) about this decision.

"Tuff it out" is my first instinct, but it's not the right approach for this kid.

[UEL]

For what it is worth, the Canadian government does not consider a GED the equivalent to a high school diploma when it comes to hiring policy. I've checked the military, RCMP and CBSA on this.

In fact, regardless of what grade you completed in high school, the policy is to indicate that the applicant has only completed grade 10 if a GED certificate is produced. (however, if a GED certificate and a transcript saying grade 11 complete are presented, I would indicate grade 11 complete).

I know she is not my daughter, but I would try to spin this as a learning opportunity. Not all of us get jobs that are a treat year in and year out. She can build some solid character by persevering and completing her diploma.

Good luck.

[Logoboros]

One other thing you might mention to her: if she wants to be an artist, she may very well have to learn to tolerate unpleasant, soul-crushing, alienating, and possibly even humiliating day jobs -- or even entry-level art jobs. Of course, this partly depends on her field.

[Lainie]

In theory, I understand how toughing it out would teach the kid a valuable lesson.

In practice, however, I don't see what's to be gained from her spending two school years getting crappy grades (I can enforce sanctions for not performing, but I can't force her to perform) in classes she doesn't care about. IME, people don't learn lessons they're not ready to learn.

My gut instinct is to try to push her into pursuing PSEO, and the school into helping make it possible for her. At least that way the state will pay for some of the college.

ETA: Re: alternative programs, she's already in a charter school that's about as alternative as you can get. When we first interviewed with the registrar, she looked at DD and said, in a "get over yourself" tone, "You will not be the weirdest kid in this school."

[Dr. Dave]

Hi, Lainie. I third the idea of asking her to write you a two page letter or essay explaining why she wants to make this choice, including a detailed discussion of what the consequences of the choice would be (for example, not just "I want to do it because my school sucks," but also " I have read/ spoken with these local colleges and found that I can be accepted with aged. GED prep classes are available at X, which I can get to by Y, etc.") I worked with a very wise nurse who di dthis to her (by then) adult children when they were older teens- she even once did it to a patient who wanted to stop a certain medication! It will be a good project for her and force her to think about it at the same time. It will also helo you guage if this really is something she wants or it is just a temporary outburst.

Anyway, just for kicks, I looked up Kent State (not saying that's where she'd go, just picked it ETA: Slow post, sorry) and their freshman application says that a GED and SAT or ACT are acceptable, so it is doable. However, they also say that home-schooled students should complete a course of study that matches the Ohio College Prep curicullum (see the freshman app on their website.) Realistically, she might also want to spend her first or even second year at a local community college- a lot of kids are doing that around here, incluidng those who did well in high school and will then go on to a 4-year college.

IIRC, you have indicated that she is quite intelligent but has some attention problems. If she is for example in a higher level math or English in high school, she may be able to enroll in a community college course now, even before getting the GED (while also working on that). That would give her something to do, give her the experienc eof a college classroom to see how she likes it and does, and also show college admissions folfk that she can handle a class.

Good luck to both of you!

[Gibbie]

Yea, "suck it up buttercup" was my first reaction too, but you know your kid and what will work.

I know at one point you were looking at other options such as online charter schools and homeschooling, anything like that that will work instead? I think it will be much easier for her to get into a school, even though they say they accept GEDs with a diploma rather than a GED.

Is there a possiblity of a program where she takes college courses as well as high school? I know around here some of the kids can take classes at the local community college. Maybe that would give her a better environment.

I'm definitely all for going drinking with you.

Gibbie

[Lainie]

Just as a fun wrinkle, if she drops out, and her dad gets word of it (and it's not something I can, in good conscience, deliberately hide from him), he'll have a fit, and possibly threaten legal action to get custody. Whether he'd really pursue that or not is another question, and there's no way he'd win, but he could make our life hell for a while.

[chocolate kisses]

DD got into a program here where she spent half the day at a vocational school (dental hygiene, in her case). Her high school also offered a program where the school helped get the students into a job in their field of interest and their grade was based on reports and projects the students submitted to the teacher. It was called the ICE program here. Perhaps your daughter's school offers such programs. If she is just looking to get out of the environment, maybe such a program would be a good compromise for the two of you.

ETA: Regarding the essay, DD wanted a small pet (can't remember just what she wanted in particular but it was going to be something I ended up looked after anyway) really, really bad. I made her check out two books from the library and write me an essay to convince me they make a good pet. She read the books but never wrote the essay. She said, "never mind...I don't want one now". I am all for requesting an essay!

[Dr. Dave]

Oh, joy. Look at what a horrible mother. She let MY daughter become a drop out.

We'll make yours a double.

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by Lainie

In practice, however, I don't see what's to be gained from her spending two school years getting crappy grades (I can enforce sanctions for not performing, but I can't force her to perform) in classes she doesn't care about. IME, people don't learn lessons they're not ready to learn.

But even if she gets crappy grades, she'll still have a diploma at the end of it. And this might be a temporary-ish thing, too, though you know your kid better than anybody, so you certainly have a better idea about it.

My gut instinct is to try to push her into pursuing PSEO, and the school into helping make it possible for her. At least that way the state will pay for some of the college.

I think this is a really good idea. Also maybe something to look at is a work study program if her school has such. It'd be a great way to both keep her in school without making her have to be at school all day.

ETA: Re: alternative programs, she's already in a charter school that's about as alternative as you can get. When we first interviewed with the registrar, she looked at DD and said, in a "get over yourself" tone, "You will not be the weirdest kid in this school."

I think Li'l is your kid's clone.

[Lainie]

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

I think Li'l is your kid's clone.

Is that really surprising? I swear we must be sisters.