Man shoots himself in the head while teaching firearms safety

[snopes]

A man is dead after accidentally shooting himself in the head while teaching his girlfriend firearms safety.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story...storyid=185501

[candy from strangers]

Oh sure make fun, but you can bet his girlfriend will never accidently shoot herself in the head now! Safety lesson: successful

[mags]

The witnesses said Looney would put the guns to his head, and before pulling the trigger, would ask her if she thought the gun would go off. With the first two guns, the safety mechanisms worked. The third gun fired.
...
Deputies believe alcohol was involved.

The last sentence says all that really needs to be said.

I do wonder if it can really be considered "accidentally shooting himself in the head" if he was indeed putting the guns to his head and pulling the trigger. Accidentally on purpose, I guess.

[JoeBentley]

You I think I've clarified my position on stupid self inflicted deaths over in the other thread from "You deserved it" to "You should of seen it coming."

This one though might actually deserve the former.

[JoeBentley]

Originally Posted by mags

I do wonder if it can really be considered "accidentally shooting himself in the head" if he was indeed putting the guns to his head and pulling the trigger. Accidentally on purpose, I guess.

My firearms in instructor is adamant about the their being no such thing as an accidental shooting. They are only two kinds of shootings according to him, intentional and negligent.

[babyshoes]

Originally Posted by JoeBentley

They are only two kinds of shootings according to him, intentional and negligent.

I ::heart:: your firearms instructor.

[Chloe]

Tough on soldiers if any civilian shootings are by definition negligent.

[Fowlplay]

Teaching firearms safety?

By pointing a gun to your head and pulling the trigger. Brilliant.

One of the first rules of gun safety my dad taught me: don't ever point a gun loaded or not, safety on or not, etc. at anything you don't mind being shot. Ever.

[llewtrah]

It reminds me of my dad telling me "do what I say, not what I do" whenver he did something I most definitely was not to copy.

[Lainie]

His name was Looney?

[CannonFodder]

Originally Posted by Chloe

Tough on soldiers if any civilian shootings are by definition negligent.

Yup, it is. It can result in quite a long stay in Leavenworth.

[purpleiguana]

Originally Posted by Lainie

His name was Looney?

I am sooo glad I'm not the only one who zeroed in on that little gem.

[Dara bhur gCara]

Originally Posted by CannonFodder

Yup, it is. It can result in quite a long stay in Leavenworth.

The operative word there is "can," though, isn't it? If all civilian deaths, or at least all civilian deaths by firearm were considered negligent by definition, surely it would always result in imprisonment, wouldn't it?

[Roadie]

Originally Posted by Lainie

His name was Looney?

I know someone with the last name of Looney. And it fits him well. I read this article just to see if it was him.

[CannonFodder]

Originally Posted by Dara bhur gCara

The operative word there is "can," though, isn't it? If all civilian deaths, or at least all civilian deaths by firearm were considered negligent by definition, surely it would always result in imprisonment, wouldn't it?

Sorry, I misread her statement. I read it as civilian deaths caused by military persons for some dumb reason. On re-reading it with open eyes I don't see how or why I read it that way.

And yes, except for some very weird and unlikely circumstances a safely handled firearm should never shoot into anything except what the shooter intends. It really doesn't take a great deal of brainpower to learn to safely handle a firearm. I've taught hundreds of 18 year old males to do it, and that's a tough demographic to reach!

[Insensible Crier]

Originally Posted by JoeBentley

My firearms in instructor is adamant about the their being no such thing as an accidental shooting. They are only two kinds of shootings according to him, intentional and negligent.

I like that. I'm actually trying to think of a purely accidental shooting (and by shooting I mean a bullet properly exiting from a firearm) and I can't think of one.

Originally Posted by Fowlplay

One of the first rules of gun safety my dad taught me: don't ever point a gun loaded or not, safety on or not, etc. at anything you don't mind being shot. Ever.

My dad too. He said to always treat a firearm as if it were fully loaded, no safety, hair trigger and it's out to get you.

[JoeBentley]

Originally Posted by Chloe

Tough on soldiers if any civilian shootings are by definition negligent.

Sorry I wasn't clear, shooting as in "the act of causing the gun to fire" not shooting as in target selection, which as I'm sure you can image is much more complicated, especially in combat.

His basic point that if the gun fires you either wanted it to fire or you did something stupid is valid.

[Steve Eisenberg]

Originally Posted by JoeBentley

My firearms in instructor is adamant about the their being no such thing as an accidental shooting. They are only two kinds of shootings according to him, intentional and negligent.

I don't see how this could be more true with firearms than with anything else. People make mistakes. The great majority of firearms mistakes -- say, a hunter getting off a shot without being absolutely certain there is no people hidden far beyond the target -- don't result in any problem. Take the worse mistake made in the career of almost any hunter, combine it with extremely bad luck, and anyone who spends a lot of time shooting guns in the woods could be seen as negligent. And if everyone is negligent, negligence becomes a meaningless concept.


I can't find the link, but I read once that there is some small mistake made in almost every complex operation -- and then, if the surgeon is good, instantly noticed and repaired. Usually, the surgical rework causes no harms, but in frail patients, the extra time under anesthesia must sometimes be the difference between life and death. A surgeon who goes around falsely implying that only negligent surgeons kill their patients is the last one I would want to operate on me.

Accidents happen. There is much that can be done to reduce their incidence. But if you fence off the people who make mistakes as stupid, uninformed or negligent, you aren't going to question yourself as you should.

Does your instructor think that every hunting accident should result in a charge of criminal negligence?

[Ramblin' Dave]

Originally Posted by llewtrah

It reminds me of my dad telling me "do what I say, not what I do" whenver he did something I most definitely was not to copy.

He actually said that, meaning he was aware of his hypocrisy? My parents always left me wondering just how lacking in self-awareness they were.

One thing my dad did get right with me - the first of our family to grow up in a city, and therefore rarely exposed to firearms - is what Fowlplay said about never, ever pointing a gun at anything you wouldn't want to shoot.

[robbiev]

Originally Posted by Steve Eisenberg

Does your instructor think that every hunting accident should result in a charge of criminal negligence?

Whether it's right or wrong, the idea that there are very few or no accidental shootings is an extremely common concept.

I'd say there's a difference between a complex operation and handling a gun.

With a gun, you: 1. Don't point it at stuff you don't want to shoot. 2. Don't pull the trigger unless you want to shoot whatever the gun is pointed at, even if you think it is unloaded. 3. (when shooting at something intentionally) Always know what you're shooting at and have a justifiable reason to shoot at it.

It isn't really that complicated.