My daughter wants to go on the road

[snapdragonfly]

...with the band...

I tried so hard to make her a rock star but she's ended up a groupie. Hell's bell's.

Not really, it's just that her boyfriend is in a band. Which is fine (they are actually pretty good) and he's very nice - but now two of her best friends are also dating bandmembers and she came home from school with this brilliant idea that everyone except one bandmember who would be riding with his dad in the equipment truck, would all pile into her minivan and trek up to a town 200 miles away next Saturday night for a gig.

This was not met with enthusiasm from husband and I.

Because, it's 200 miles there, 200 back, and it's all on one of the most 18 wheeler infested, congested stretches of 1-30 you can imagine. My daughter has been driving not quite a year. Van full of high spirited kids having a WONDERFUL time, I'm sure, and all kinds of very distracting conversations going on. Plus whenever my daughter is around her group of friends, her normally effervescent self goes into overdrive and she lights up and buzzes like a neon sign and I can't imagine, even with her "switching off" driving with her best friend (who has only been driving one year longer than her) that this is a good idea.

After some thought, husband and I offered for me to drive them up there and back ("what will you do doing the concert?" "Don't worry, I'll find a rock to hide under somewhere") which was not received with much joy and now she's checking to see with the rest of them. She also asked if she could go up with someone else driving and I said no, I don't know how well and safe of drivers any of these other kids are and we live in a little town and I'm quite confident none of them have much experience with highway driving and big city driving. Hell, my daughter still gets nervous from a semi next to her on our comparatively placid little highway on the way to our town.

I just think the stakes are too high and this is not the kind of thing to learn a lesson the hard way.

We will not relent on this and I don't want her to know how much I sympathize with her dissappointment of not getting to have the wonderful fun plan of goin' on the road with the band and the wonderful exciting prospect of freedom and all that, because I do really, but no. Even though they would be caravaning with a parent in a truck ahead of them. I just don't feel her driving skills are safe enough yet. And they'd be coming home late at night, tired, and that semi truck traffic doesn't let up at night. I've been on that stretch and it's one of the worse roads I know. The stretch from Waco to Austin is a mite worse, just a mite.

I'm not really asking for anything here except just frustration that she has to go and ask for something I just know is wrong for her. We don't usually have to tell her "no" much because she very very seldom asks for anything we don't approve of. So I don't usually have to tell her "no" and it's not any fun for me to do. She's a very dependable and good girl, and I know she thinks we are being overprotective, but...stakes too high. We are talking about half a dozen young promising lives here. Not to be too dramatic, but every year there are at least a couple funerals attended by way too young of a crowd; and plus I just have a bad feeling about it, and our big old thread on the bogusness of psychics nonwithstanding, every time in my life I've ever gotten this particular bad feeling and ignored it, I was damn sorry. Once with a car wreck in fact. Could be just common sense nagging at me, I don't know and don't care, I just know this is not a good idea for her.

[Beachlife!]

I think you are doing the right thing and yours was an aceptable compromise. I understand that its not the same with 'mom' along, but I think your safety concerns are all perfectly valid.

[AnglRdr]

Yeah, I don't think I'd be particularly thrilled, either. How old is she again?

[rhiandmoi]

Well between mom comes with or not going at all, I would choose mom comes with. I'm sure it will be fine. She's probably just a bit mortified. Maybe you could get in contact with their regular roadie dad, and find out what kind of roadie duties he might need help with.

[snapdragonfly]

That's a good idea, Rhiandmoi, and I imagine that's what it is, she's mortified.

She's going to be 17 in a couple weeks. She's quite independent and usually very responsible but...no.

According to her, everyone else's parents are just fine with the idea of their kids piled into her car (it seats more, being a used mom mobile and all) and her driving, with her entire 9 months or so of experience, but I rather doubt that. I know one of the band members mothers - his little sister was one of our Annies in "Annie" this spring - and she did not strike me in the least as a neglectful parent or a foolish one. Maybe parents are less protective of boys. I'll bet her best friends parents aren't hip on this though (when questioned of that exact instance she said friend hadn't actually asked yet. Uh huh.)

Even if they were all fine with it...no.

[AnglRdr]

17? Oh hell to tha no.

[rhiandmoi]

First, to paraphrase my mom - those other parents aren't her mother. It doesn't matter if all the other mothers think it's ok, you don't, and since "Janie's mom lets her" didn't work when your daughter was 5, why should it work now?

Secondly, how do they normally get to their gigs?

[snapdragonfly]

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

17? Oh hell to tha no.

*nods*

It's the drive mainly. As far as kids go, this bunch is about as well behaved as they get, (not that that doesn't leave sufficient room for worry) and I don't think they'd do anything they wouldn't do in town - plus there will be adults there - but it's that drive. It's a horrible drive. My husband has to come back from jobs up there sometimes and he's always dodging truckers who have fallen asleep on the road. It's 1-30: every truck in the center of America going from Mexico to Canada is on it. She's not experienced enough and I don't think any of the others are either.

My dad let me drive from New Mexico to Austin semi by myself when I was 17. I was caravaning with my best friend's mom though, and that part of the country you could drive for 35 minutes without ever seeing another car. He was always really liberal about stuff like that - as long as I wasn't alone with a boy he let me do just about anything.

I wonder what *he* would think of this. I bet even he would say no and if he knew how bad that road was I know he would.

[snapdragonfly]

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi

First, to paraphrase my mom - those other parents aren't her mother. It doesn't matter if all the other mothers think it's ok, you don't, and since "Janie's mom lets her" didn't work when your daughter was 5, why should it work now?

Secondly, how do they normally get to their gigs?

They are usually either in town or in small towns not more than 15 minutes from here, and they don't all go in one car; roadie dad takes their equipment and they all show up in groups like they would to any other activity. I have no problems with a short drive down a fairly quiet highway - how else is she going to learn? But this is too much too soon. It's a quasi Christian band and most of their gigs are in those big Six Flags over Jesus type churches with big youth activity halls. Not nightclubs or anything. They are all high school aged.

[Ramblin' Dave]

I pitched a similar idea to my parents when I was 16 (hitting the road with my best friend for the summer), was told no in no uncertain terms, and certainly I can now see why. I'm sure your daughter will too soon enough!

[Eddylizard]

I'm going to go against the flow and sat 'let her do it'.

For a start, unless your culture is very different to ours lorry (18 wheeler) drivers aren't homicidal maniacs out to slaughter the newbie driver. They are fully aware of their responsibilities on the road.

Secondly, you say she has no experience of highway driving. Well how is she going to get any if you forbid her to drive on a highway?

It is only 200 miles. I would say to her go, but take it easy - don't put the pedal to the metal, set off in plenty of time, take a short break at the most after 100 miles of driving (75 or 50 would be better) and share the driving if possible. If she's too tired to drive home after the gig, offer to stump up for a motel.

No-one ever improved their driving skills by avoiding driving. You cannot cosset her forever. She has demonstrated her ability to drive to the examiner - let her use it.

[lyriccoloratura]

The only way I'd go along with her driving would be if I were riding shotgun and could take over at the first sign of fatigue/scariness. And the drive home is definitely out for a child (yes, 17 is still a child) after an exciting and tiring night. Kids that age still need more sleep than old farts like us, and unless you can enforce a nap during the concert , she's going to be too tired for that kind of drive.

Lyric-not there yet, thank whomever-coloratura

[snapdragonfly]

Originally Posted by Eddylizard

I'm going to go against the flow and sat 'let her do it'.

For a start, unless your culture is very different to ours lorry (18 wheeler) drivers aren't homicidal maniacs out to slaughter the newbie driver. They are fully aware of their responsibilities on the road.

Secondly, you say she has no experience of highway driving. Well how is she going to get any if you forbid her to drive on a highway?

It is only 200 miles. I would say to her go, but take it easy - don't put the pedal to the metal, set off in plenty of time, take a short break at the most after 100 miles of driving (75 or 50 would be better) and share the driving if possible. If she's too tired to drive home after the gig, offer to stump up for a motel.

No-one ever improved their driving skills by avoiding driving. You cannot cosset her forever. She has demonstrated her ability to drive to the examiner - let her use it.

I agree with you in theory but this is just too big a bite at once. I would like to start her out on highway driving with myself or her dad in the passenger seat, and not on the highway that incidentally is the one that leads to the home town of Walmart and the 18 wheeler traffic is very very very much more intense than any other highway I've been on. They aren't homicidal maniacs, but, here in the states, they sometimes give in to the pressure to drive more hours than they should and they do speed to stay awake and they can be scarey when you are in a big canyon of nothing but 18 wheelers on a 3 lane highway all going 70 mph. It's just that one road. If they were headed south on 59 to Longview or something I'd probably consider it.

And btw the examiner she exhibited her skills to was myself - parents in Texas can get away with that - and I think she's not ready to negotiate this particular road with 5 of her gabby, giddy, giggly friends in the car.

But if drive her to this show, I'm going to let her drive a good bit of the way so she can start getting some practise. She needs to be ready for big stacked overpasses and such by the time she leaves home to go to school. Right now she's nervous on them even when someone else is driving - they kind of freak her out. The solution to this is to let her drive back from Dallas some time when we are leaving out around 2:00 in the afternoon, and traffic is not too heavy, and I can be in the seat next to her to calmly encourage her and keep an eye out for hazards while she learns how to merge in that kind of traffic.

edit: spanked by lyriccoloratura!

[Amigone201]

Originally Posted by lyriccoloratura

The only way I'd go along with her driving would be if I were riding shotgun and could take over at the first sign of fatigue/scariness. And the drive home is definitely out for a child (yes, 17 is still a child) after an exciting and tiring night.

While I agree with snapdragonfly that she shouldn't do this trip yet, I object to the phrase "17 is still a child." 17 is far more than a "child" considering that next year she'll be legally an adult.

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

17? Oh hell to tha no.

If not 17, then what age is "Well maybe..."?

[lyriccoloratura]

Oo! My first spanking!

Legally, 17 is definitely a child. Even an emancipated minor is still a minor. Yes, a 17-year-old might be intellectually, physically and emotionally mature, but experiencially (is that a word?), she's not there yet.

LC

[Arrow Tech IV]

There are an awful lot of highway deaths in Texas each year, particularly of groups of kids travelling together. It's dangerous on the highways -- and the pressure is really high on a lot of those semi drivers. Cat Grey and I actually saw a driver yesterday weave back and forth between two lanes, and finally press into the HOV lane (from which there is no escape if you are a trapped car, because you'd be crushed against the median).

Fortunately, there was no one in the lane at the time, but we moved four lanes over, shot up to pass the guy, and waited to see if we heard the sound of a crash behind us. I have no doubt that the driver was asleep at the wheel. If we had had a cell phone, I would have called him in.

So, basically, as a fellow Texas driver who has driven I-30, I would make the same call. Distracted kids + sleepy semi drivers = disaster.

[Christie]

Originally Posted by Eddylizard

No-one ever improved their driving skills by avoiding driving. You cannot cosset her forever. She has demonstrated her ability to drive to the examiner - let her use it.

Ordinarily I would be inclined to agree, but not if that 200 mile trip involves a car full of kids of a similar age. That's just a recipe for disaster IMO and, frankly, far too much responsibility to place on the shoulders of a young driver.

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by Amigone201

If not 17, then what age is "Well maybe..."?

A 400 mile round trip with a car full of kids? Probably closer to 21. Mainly because younger drivers with a car full of peers get into a lot of accidents. Younger drivers driving a very long distance with a car full of peers ups that risk.

[lyra_silvertongue]

I started making 500 mile roundtrips with my friends when I was 17. I had a little more driving experience than snap's DD and I wasn't always the driver or the only driver.

I can understand concerns about her driving on the freeway, and I think you're right that a car full of excited kids really ups the chance of mistakes happening. But interestingly enough, I don't remember really ever doing anything wildly inappropriate in my many roadtrips. It was always while I was home and bored that the destructive and/or illegal stuff happened.

Really though, going out of town for concerts was the foundation of my young adulthood and I have so many awesome memories. I think you should figure out some steps to work toward so that you feel comfortable letting her travel with her friends.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

A 400 mile round trip with a car full of kids? Probably closer to 21. Mainly because younger drivers with a car full of peers get into a lot of accidents. Younger drivers driving a very long distance with a car full of peers ups that risk.

You are right about the statistics about peers and accidents. If I were a parent, I'd lean against allowing it, for this very reason.

In some states, like mine, under-18s, for the first six months of their license, can't even drive with a passenger under 18 in the car with them (with certain exceptions). I'd be less worried about driving skills than about a "car full of peers." A lot of things can go wrong in that scenario, which you can imagine.

You mention that the kids are "about as well behaved as they get." Even so, unless they're practically saints, I'd be a little uneasy about it.

Thanks.

Bill