ACORN staff taped with woman posing as prostitute

[snopes]

Two employees of the advocacy group ACORN are shown on a hidden-camera video apparently advising a couple posing as a prostitute and her pimp to lie about her profession and launder her earnings.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...TAM&SECTION=US

[AnglRdr]

This sounds so outrageous that I really hope it was shenanigans on the part of the filmmakers.

Although, it is interesting that ACORN has suspended the employees pending investigation. It's almost is if they don't condone illegal activity or something.

[lord_feldon]

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

Although, it is interesting that ACORN has suspended the employees pending investigation. It's almost is if they don't condone illegal activity or something.

World Domination FAIL.

[CannonFodder]

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

This sounds so outrageous that I really hope it was shenanigans on the part of the filmmakers.

Although, it is interesting that ACORN has suspended the employees pending investigation. It's almost is if they don't condone illegal activity or something.

Were they even acting in their capacity as employees of ACORN when this went down, or are they merely ACORN employees who were allegedly doing something unethical outside of the scope of their employment?

[Ana Ng]

I got lambasted by teh commentators on the blog I write for about this story. It just feels so unnecessary to entrap people working for a non-profit who may have to work with those outside the law on a day to day basis- like with people who might be illegally here, for instance. Good on you, you jerks, you made it so less low-income people can register to vote and get tax advice. What a bunch of heroes.

Humans are consistently unable to make perfect choices when presented with an absurd situation. It's hardly ACORN policy to traffic children, for heaven's sake.

[Ana Ng]

Originally Posted by CannonFodder

Were they even acting in their capacity as employees of ACORN when this went down, or are they merely ACORN employees who were allegedly doing something unethical outside of the scope of their employment?

They were at work, but it's really entrapment here. A ludicrous scenario was invented to elicit an inflammatory response.

[CannonFodder]

Originally Posted by Ana Ng

They were at work, but it's really entrapment here. A ludicrous scenario was invented to elicit an inflammatory response.

If it was a private agent, then it's not legally entrapment.

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by CannonFodder

Were they even acting in their capacity as employees of ACORN when this went down, or are they merely ACORN employees who were allegedly doing something unethical outside of the scope of their employment?

It sounds like the former--one of ACORN's functions is to help low- and moderate-income people become homeowners, so they do some counseling with potential homeowners with regards to finances, so that there would be a prostitute seeking help there is within the realm of the possible.

ACORN is not pleased with Ailes, by the way, about all of this.

[Ana Ng]

Originally Posted by CannonFodder

If it was a private agent, then it's not legally entrapment.

Yeah- I mean it's more like "To Catch a Predator" entrapment. It's like the people who target poor people to traffic drugs once and they get sent to jail forever. It just seems like a pointless effort, I'm not comfortable with people being *that* kind of vigilante.

[Malruhn]

How can it be entrapment when the reporters went there to attempt to legitimize their illegal business venture, and were allegedly assisted by the ACORN reps?

How many other investigations against ACORN are still pending? (not snark here, I'm asking an innocent question!!) I recall lots of allegations of voter fraud, but, like many things, just never followed any news about it.

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by Malruhn

How can it be entrapment when the reporters went there to attempt to legitimize their illegal business venture, and were allegedly assisted by the ACORN reps?

Well, ACORN is saying that at least one of the videos contains obvious voice overs.

But yeah, not "entrapment," at least from a legal perspective, I don't think.

How many other investigations against ACORN are still pending? (not snark here, I'm asking an innocent question!!) I recall lots of allegations of voter fraud, but, like many things, just never followed any news about it.

I don't know that there have been any investigations against ACORN itself, but there have been investigations of employees (sorry for the quibble), which ACORN has cooperated with, for one example. There was also one in Nevada that I am aware of.

[PatYoung]

Very disturbing video.

[fitz1980]

It's ironic. Most folks had never heard of ACORN before the last election, now they are the right's whipping post and rallying cry. Basically they're this year's Willy Horton. A friend of mine joked that he thinks that ACORN themselves are behind this paranoia about them. They're a non-profit group that helps poor people; but to many wingnuts ACORN is a cross between the CIA & the Mafia, that has the power to rig elections and god knows what else.

Regarding the allegations of voter fraud, it was actually voter registration fraud and ACORN were the victims, not the perpetrators. They employed some people who figured that it would be easier to just make up fake names for voter registration forms rather than go actually register people to vote. By law 3rd party organizations can't just throw out voter registration forms, even if they look fake. The reason is to make sure that they don't just suddenly decide that every one where someone registered as a Republican (or whatever) "looks fake" and toss it out. So ACORN flagged the suspicious ones, turned them over to the proper authorities and fired the people responsable. And for that the right has accused the organization of massive voter fraud.

As for this situation. I saw an article somewhere that this "undercover filmmaker" tried the same scam in Miami and San Diego without any positive results. Who knows how many offices they ran this scam in to find a couple of people who are OK enough with prostitution to give them some "well you didn't hear it from me, but....." type advice. Like it or not any organization with thousands of employees will have plenty of low level flunkies who are willing to break the law. I mean you could go into dozens of bars with a hot underaged girl and get served alcohol illegally. Heck you could find plenty of bartenders willing to broker a drug deal for you; drug use/dealing is rampant in the restaurant industry. Of course if you took a hidden camera in there and made it public the bosses would fire the offending employee. At that point would you really be able to say that Chili's or TGIFriday's condones underage drinking and drug use just because some low level people, who they would promptly fire, do? That's essentially what these people are doing.

[snopes]

The national community organizing group Acorn, which has come under fire after employees were caught on camera appearing to encourage tax evasion and prostitution, said that it was ordering an independent investigation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/us...s/17acorn.html

[damian]

Originally Posted by Ana Ng

A ludicrous scenario was invented to elicit an inflammatory response.

But it shows that the employees are willing to aid and/or abet in the breaking of several laws. That makes them accessories to the crimes if it were real.

Most, if not all, organisations that deal with children (in Australia) are subject to mandatory reporting laws. If the think there is abuse of children happening, they must report it to child welfare officials.

[snopes]

ACORN officials in San Diego have fired an employee caught on video providing advice about human smuggling to a couple posing as a pimp and a prostitute.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...TAM&SECTION=US

[Ana Ng]

Originally Posted by damian

But it shows that the employees are willing to aid and/or abet in the breaking of several laws. That makes them accessories to the crimes if it were real.

It doesn't make the scenario any less fake and precipitated to essentially block the registration of low-income voters.

Most, if not all, organisations that deal with children (in Australia) are subject to mandatory reporting laws. If the think there is abuse of children happening, they must report it to child welfare officials.

Well, as I'm sure you're aware, this isn't an organization that deals with children, making the "sting" all the more silly.

You can lead low-level employees into stupid stuff in any number of organizations. It doesn't make what these people did commendable. All of what you said is obvious to anyone who read any of the coverage on this series of events. It's still an invented crisis. No one was committing crimes against children here.

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by Ana Ng

Well, as I'm sure you're aware, this isn't an organization that deals with children, making the "sting" all the more silly.

Not all states limit mandatory reporting to agencies that work with children. I am sure I've mentioned before that every adult in Tennessee is a mandatory reporter.

Just putting that out there...

[Ana Ng]

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

Not all states limit mandatory reporting to agencies that work with children. I am sure I've mentioned before that every adult in Tennessee is a mandatory reporter.

Just putting that out there...

My point is that that is really *all* beside the point. Morally, yes, this should not be happening but the idea of making up something like this to bring down an organization that helps poor people for sport, and being part successful, rankles me. It's just irritating.

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by Ana Ng

My point is that that is really *all* beside the point. Morally, yes, this should not be happening but the idea of making up something like this to bring down an organization that helps poor people for sport, and being part successful, rankles me. It's just irritating.

Like I said, was just putting it out there.

But yeah, it's irksome.