More important: location or living space?

[Ana Ng]

Firstly, I apologize to the snopesters who have been subject to my hand-wringing on the subject over the past year- I'm hoping to get some impartial advice as I've been spinning my wheels over this in the same spot for nine months.

Long story short-divorce- child support problems- moved 3 times in 4 months- ended up on Long Island. When I moved here, I left a house I loved and a school my kids ask to return to every day, to be closer to my family. My uncle and godfather set me up in a house with very low rent but it is in basically unlivable condition. The bath/shower doesn't drain well and the knobs don't work, the pipes under the sink are leaking, windows are broken and have no screens, there's no room for a table or workspace- it's just a very, very difficult place to live. I hate having friends over and when my mother or sister visit, they harangue me for the state of the house (while trying to convince me to stay.) From the start, my goal has been to find a place in which I can stay for the long term and give my kids stability.

Long Island is part of the NYC metro area, the most expensive place to live in the US. I can't afford to live anywhere else on Long Island but living in this house is driving me insane. I have been looking upstate (2-3 hours away) and there are much nicer places for much, much lower rent. I don't necessarily fancy being in "the middle of nowhere" but I can only work remotely so lack of jobs is never a concern for me.

My family refuses to discuss this with me. My sister says it's a "crazy" idea and my mother says to take her grandkids away would break her heart. But everyone in my family is too busy in their own stuff to bother with us so much and the majority of our time is spent alone, in this house.

Is there a logical course of action here? Is it, indeed, crazy and short-sighted to move to a remote area (the Catskills) alone with two small children and no support network? All of my family lives in Babylon or the surrounding towns and leaving that area would mean I couldn't see them much. Plus, my sister is pregnant and she might need my help and I don't want to stress her out.

The place I'm looking at is literally in the middle of nowhere- about an hour outside Kingston and that far from things like Target and Walmart, no cell signal, etc. I have no friends or family there. But the living space is huge and gorgeous- everything is new and not leaking, there is a kitchen in which we could eat as a family instead of the kids eating every meal in front of the TV on tray tables. (I could also look in an area like Saugerties which has a busy little town and lots of people and is only 20 minutes from Kingston.)

What would you do? Bonus points if you've ever been the sole parent available to two small kids.

[Christie]

How much actual support are you getting right now? Does anyone in your family babysit for you? Buy you a grocery order now and then? Help with maintenance around that house? If the only support they offer is coming over to give you a hard time now and then I don't see why you would even be hesitating about moving. If I were you I'd already be packing! But take this for what's worth from someone who has moved so often her friends always put her address in their address book in pencil .

[snapdragonfly]

Originally Posted by Christie

How much actual support are you getting right now? Does anyone in your family babysit for you? Buy you a grocery order now and then? Help with maintenance around that house? If the only support they offer is coming over to give you a hard time now and then I don't see why you would even be hesitating about moving. If I were you I'd already be packing! But take this for what's worth from someone who has moved so often her friends always put her address in their address book in pencil .

I agree with what Christie says and I have actually been in a similar situation to yours. Not exactly, but similar enough.

I'd go. You can get your life together in peace and return to the big city on your own terms at some point in the future. It would be nice to help your sister but right now you are the one in need of help and nobody seems to be either able or willing to give you that in your current address.

The only thing that gives me pause about the specific place you mention is that there is no cell signal and it is isolated - but that can't be the only nice place that's affordable, perhaps you could find someplace a little less isolated but similarly new and nice. eta that Saugerties area sounds worthy of a closer look.

But I would not feel beholden to them to stay in that rat trap. I think it's pretty nervy of them to guilt you into staying there actually.

[Ana Ng]

Originally Posted by Christie

How much actual support are you getting right now? Does anyone in your family babysit for you? Buy you a grocery order now and then? Help with maintenance around that house? If the only support they offer is coming over to give you a hard time now and then I don't see why you would even be hesitating about moving. If I were you I'd already be packing! But take this for what's worth from someone who has moved so often her friends always put her address in their address book in pencil .

Not much. I don't blame my family for that as they all have their own problems, but the one time in the past six months I've needed a "babysitter" was Sunday when I met Canuckistan in the city. About 4 hours into the going out-ness, my mom called requesting I come home because her ear hurt. I was on the way home anyway, but getting the the city is an hour each way.

My father shows up once a month, thereabouts, and takes my kids out to get a toy. My mother lets us come over, but she's still to angry about me being a single parent to babysit if I need it. She feels that I made "choices" and I should suffer the consequences.

I've had my moving stuff thrown at me many times (ex-h was shorting us a grand a month in babysitting and $200 in school) so I had to move because I had different considerations back then. I don't get like, itchy feet.

Originally Posted by snapdragonfly

I agree with what Christie says and I have actually been in a similar situation to yours. Not exactly, but similar enough.

I'd go. You can get your life together in peace and return to the big city on your own terms at some point in the future. It would be nice to help your sister but right now you are the one in need of help and nobody seems to be either able or willing to give you that in your current address.

The only thing that gives me pause about the specific place you mention is that there is no cell signal and it is isolated - but that can't be the only nice place that's affordable, perhaps you could find someplace a little less isolated but similarly new and nice.

But I would not feel beholden to them to stay in that rat trap. I think it's pretty nervy of them to guilt you into staying there actually.

There are many, many places that I could go- I could go closer to Kingston or New Paltz- I've just been stalking this one apartment that's 1600 sq. feet and in an old renovated oddfellows meeting hall. I could get a landline through my computer, it just is indeed very remote compared to Long Island.

I think some on this board would laugh and say it is not remote at all.

Anyway, thanks for the insight.

[snapdragonfly]

Originally Posted by Ana Ng

My father shows up once a month, thereabouts, and takes my kids out to get a toy. My mother lets us come over, but she's still to angry about me being a single parent to babysit if I need it. She feels that I made "choices" and I should suffer the consequences.

Wow. How can you leave such a secure and loving network of support. Bottom line is, if you are going to be held accountable for your choices by them in that punitive way, then you get to go ahead and truly make your own decisions based only on your own needs and not with their approval or dissapproval weighing into it. They can't eat their cake and still have it. They can't turn their nose up at you for making decisions they don't like and then expect you to cater to their preferences in your future decisions.

[Barbara]

A few things to mull over:

Ana, if all the fixables you mentioned (shower that doesn't drain properly, leak under the sink, broken windows) were repaired and somehow a proper workspace were created in your existing house, would you still want to get out of there? I've gained the impression from what you've posted that you never liked the house, and if that's the case, that's not likely to change no matter what gets repaired.

If that's not the case, however, if you've the money to move house, you've also the money to get those repairs made. For the plumbing work what you need is not a plumber, but a handyman. If you are going to stay where you're at, start asking around to see who knows of a good one. Such a fella could also help with those windows, both by replacing the broken glass and by helping you buy the right replacement screens.

Moving on, while I can see wanting to leave a living situation that you just plain don't like and to move to one that will suit you and the kids a whole lot better, were it me standing in your shoes, I wouldn't consider living someplace that's an hour's drive from anywhere and where my cell phone wouldn't work. Accidents happen and things go wrong - with two kids to care for and no family or friends living nearby, I would not willingly place myself one hour from the nearest doctor, nor strand myself in the middle of nowhere where I know it's just a matter of time that one morning when I try to start it, my car won't work.

How would you handle child care out there, Ana? What if one of the kids gets sick and you need to get to the nearest Walmart to pick up antihistamines - do you leave the kid at home for two hours while you go to the store, or do you take the sick kid with you?

(I could also look in an area like Saugerties which has a busy little town and lots of people and is only 20 minutes from Kingston.)

That makes a lot more sense, I think. While there's no guarantee you would quickly build a support network in a small town, it is far more likely you would hook up with a decent emergency babysitter and learn the name of a somewhat fair local mechanic than you would while living in the middle of nowhere. It's also likely such a small town would have things like a pharmacy and corner store that a single mother would benefit extremely from having ready access to.

[CSGirl]

Originally Posted by Barbara

That makes a lot more sense, I think. While there's no guarantee you would quickly build a support network in a small town, it is far more likely you would hook up with a decent emergency babysitter and learn the name of a somewhat fair local mechanic than you would while living in the middle of nowhere. It's also likely such a small town would have things like a pharmacy and corner store that a single mother would benefit extremely from having ready access to.

Now, I am not a single mother, or any mother. However, I tend to agree with Barbara. I did the whole living in the middle of nowhere thing- 45 minutes from Walmart, etc (although I was in WNY, not upstate). I did it for 4 years, and even being on a college campus the distance can be draining. I really cannot imagine doing it with kids, or without cell access.

It does sound like moving may be a good idea, but there are plenty of places - like Saugerties, you mentioned (and hey maybe I could see you we go to a horse show there every year ). Lots of places like that in NY are really cheap, but with some more resources nearby.

Also, it sounds like the school is important. I know you mentioned before the school yours kids loved, I can't remember what it was called. If you don't have many restrictions to where you move, maybe you could base it around the school?

[snapdragonfly]

Originally Posted by CSGirl

If you don't have many restrictions to where you move, maybe you could base it around the school?

That had occured to me also but CSGirl posted it before I got back.
Everyone seems to agree that with kids you should not be so isolated. But I'm sure there's lots of options that aren't isolated that would yield a good school and nice affordable homes, especially when you aren't tied to a location on account of your job. Shoot, you are lucky that's the case and ought to take advantage of that to just cherry pick the nicest most kid raising friendly area you can find.

[Christie]

Originally Posted by snapdragonfly

That had occured to me also but CSGirl posted it before I got back.
Everyone seems to agree that with kids you should not be so isolated. But I'm sure there's lots of options that aren't isolated that would yield a good school and nice affordable homes, especially when you aren't tied to a location on account of your job. Shoot, you are lucky that's the case and ought to take advantage of that to just cherry pick the nicest most kid raising friendly area you can find.

That makes sense to me and is pretty much what we've done ourselves in the past. And frankly, from everything Ana has posted about her family in the past I think a little distance would be a good thing. Ana, you don't need to worry about anyone but yourself and your kids. If you can find a kid friendly area that offers a good school and a decent living space at an affordable price then I'd go for it. Whatever choice you make though it shouldn't be based on what your family wants you to do - they've IMO lost the right (if they ever had that right in the first place) to have any say in this.

[Menolly]

Ana, another vote for placing more importance on getting the kids back to the school they miss so badly. Our family being in a remote location with one small child is not something I would've considered back in the day. YMMV, but for me an hour's drive to the nearest hospital is not something I would have considered acceptable with a small child.

As far as your mom's actions, it sounds to me that she's holding the grudge against you very tightly. So tightly it doesn't matter what you decide--to her it's going to be a bad idea or the wrong thing to do. If this is true, mark her off your list of people you're going to listen to at this point. Ditto your sister since it sounds like she's just holding onto a potential babysitter. This doesn't seem quite fair to me, to try to push you to stay in a home you despise just so you're available to babysit.

[Illuminatus]

FWIW, My brother and SIL were in a reversed scenario. They lived with my nephew in Woodland Park, CO, which was fairly remote from Colorado Springs. The peace and quiet were nice, but with only one car my SIL had a horrible time finding a job. And the people out there were... unusual. They only stayed because her family lived nearby. When they finally gave it up and moved to the SF Bay Area, they were much happier.

[Ramblin' Dave]

Originally Posted by Ana Ng

My mother lets us come over, but she's still to angry about me being a single parent to babysit if I need it. She feels that I made "choices" and I should suffer the consequences.

It's none of my business, but didn't your ex cheat on you, or dump you for someone younger, or some such? How your mother could classify that as "your choice" is absolutely beyond me, and it would take away any credibility she had with respect to this decision if I were in your shoes. In fact, it might even be good for you to get away from someone like that.

In any case, I'll take exception to the trend here and say I don't see the danger in living out in the country if that's what you want. IME, that part of NY isn't that isolated. Between there and Long Island, I know where I'd want to live if I had kids.

[Barbara]

Originally Posted by Ramblin' Dave

It's none of my business, but didn't your ex cheat on you, or dump you for someone younger, or some such? How your mother could classify that as "your choice" is absolutely beyond me, and it would take away any credibility she had with respect to this decision if I were in your shoes.

I could be wrong about this, but I believe the choices Ana's mom is reacting to were Ana's choice to marry the guy she did and then to have children with him. That Ana's ex subsequently acted like a hoon would be, in her mother's eyes, no more than natural and foreseeable consequence of the original choice of him as a marriage partner.

[Ramblin' Dave]

Ah, okay. While still a lousy thing to say to your daughter, that does make more sense.

[Christie]

Originally Posted by Ramblin' Dave

Ah, okay. While still a lousy thing to say to your daughter, that does make more sense.

What makes it even lousier is that she herself is now divorced from Ana's father because Ana's father IIRC was cheating on her. I hope she has the same standard for herself that she seems to have for Ana.

[snapdragonfly]

Originally Posted by Christie

What makes it even lousier is that she herself is now divorced from Ana's father because Ana's father IIRC was cheating on her. I hope she has the same standard for herself that she seems to have for Ana.

It sounds to me as if there are a special different set of rules for her than the rest of her family, and not in a very nice way.

[Barbara]

Originally Posted by Christie

What makes it even lousier is that she herself is now divorced from Ana's father because Ana's father IIRC was cheating on her. I hope she has the same standard for herself that she seems to have for Ana.

It's different, though - Ana's dad didn't take up with another woman and then decamp with her until his kids were grown up and gone. He was one-half of a two-parent household all throughout his kids' childhoods and young adulthoods, and there didn't seem to be any reason to suspect during that time that he was someday going to up and leave for someone new.

Also, I never got that Ana's mom was criticizing Ana for her marriage's ending; I always got that she was criticizing her for its having begun, and then for the "mistake" to have been compounded by the arrival of children.

[Zorro]

Ana, I know you had a negative impression of NJ from your brief stay in Newark, but parts of western NJ are tres cheap compared to the eastern part, and certainly compared to LI, and they're not as isolated as it sounds like the area you're talking about is. Most of them do get cell reception, for example. Also, but you'd geographically be between me and PI, and would therefore feel like you had at least something of a friend network out here.

[Ana Ng]

Thanks everyone, firstly- an impartial review of the data was exactly what I've been unable to get. I know certain things, but my family is very close knit and geographically static. There is an outside chance I can stay around here, but I do need to rely on a plan B.

Originally Posted by Barbara

Ana, if all the fixables you mentioned (shower that doesn't drain properly, leak under the sink, broken windows) were repaired and somehow a proper workspace were created in your existing house, would you still want to get out of there? I've gained the impression from what you've posted that you never liked the house, and if that's the case, that's not likely to change no matter what gets repaired.

I've thought about this a lot. One factor is the town I live in is notoriously one of the worst on Long Island, so even if some miracle happened and my house became pleasant to live in, I probably would still not be happy that my kids are attending one of the top five worst schools here and in a neighborhood in which all my friends and family are afraid to park their cars.

However, while the house can be cosmetically changed, I do personally feel there's something inherently "wrong" with it. I'm not a snob or a princess, and I was happy enough even living in the commune until that woman got every day angry with me- and it didn't even have central heating. The broken windows are small and no light gets in- something about it is just not right to me. I have nightmares about it several times a week- that I'm in the shower and it's collapsing or something similar. I've never lived in a place that's felt so wrong to me. Aside from that, the changes needed are not something I think the landlord would be able to do without gutting the place. It just feels like it's sort of... rotting. Like the shower. There's a shoddily installed surround and I strongly suspect that underneath is a lot of mold.

I think, too, a lot of it is that some of these very bad things were visibly obvious when I moved it. It makes me wonder what I may not know about the house, since the landlord gave it to me in such clearly awful condition.

If that's not the case, however, if you've the money to move house, you've also the money to get those repairs made. For the plumbing work what you need is not a plumber, but a handyman. If you are going to stay where you're at, start asking around to see who knows of a good one. Such a fella could also help with those windows, both by replacing the broken glass and by helping you buy the right replacement screens.

I do know of a cheap one, but I think it would be literally thousands of dollars and many months of work needed to make it an okay place to live.

How would you handle child care out there, Ana? What if one of the kids gets sick and you need to get to the nearest Walmart to pick up antihistamines - do you leave the kid at home for two hours while you go to the store, or do you take the sick kid with you?

That's a good point, but most of the time I do end up taking the sick kid with me. With my dad on the road and in a weird living situation (I know he lives somewhere in a studio, but not what town, with whom, or anything other than that he does indeed live) and my mom working very long hours, and my sister who doesn't really babysit, per se, my babysitting hit rate is about 10%. I hate to give the impression that no one helps me- it's just that everyone is busy enough with their own lives that to even ask a lot of the time is an imposition.

That makes a lot more sense, I think. While there's no guarantee you would quickly build a support network in a small town, it is far more likely you would hook up with a decent emergency babysitter and learn the name of a somewhat fair local mechanic than you would while living in the middle of nowhere. It's also likely such a small town would have things like a pharmacy and corner store that a single mother would benefit extremely from having ready access to.

The one particular town I was looking at isn't so bad- Margaretville, NY- but I've never lived anywhere more remote than Babylon so I was kind of apprehensive about an adjustment.

I am looking at places like Kingston and Saugerties too, I'm still trying to figure out what the best way to look up there is, and also looking at my last-ditch staying here options. Because all of my friends and family are here, and it's close to the city if I need to go to a conference or something, and my kids would suffer being away from their family.

Originally Posted by CSGirl

Also, it sounds like the school is important. I know you mentioned before the school yours kids loved, I can't remember what it was called. If you don't have many restrictions to where you move, maybe you could base it around the school?

Oddly, I feel like I could never find a place as ideal as my last one near the school. The school is the Teddy McArdle School in Little Falls, NJ. It was such an amazing thing for my kids, but free schools are so few and far between and can be expensive. Teddy McArdle was on a sliding scale though. I'm not exaggerating when I say my kids cry daily to go back there. If I were in a 60m driving distance from there, I'd be on their doorstep in a heartbeat and I recommend it to anyone who is looking for a free school- my kids were just so happy there. [Teddy McArdle]

Originally Posted by snapdragonfly

That had occured to me also but CSGirl posted it before I got back.
Everyone seems to agree that with kids you should not be so isolated. But I'm sure there's lots of options that aren't isolated that would yield a good school and nice affordable homes, especially when you aren't tied to a location on account of your job. Shoot, you are lucky that's the case and ought to take advantage of that to just cherry pick the nicest most kid raising friendly area you can find.

I am, and in fleeting moments I've even considered leaving New York full stop, and finding someplace progressive and with more culture. I'm not very outgoing though- my four friends are all from high school, and I've made one new friend in the past 10 years.

Originally Posted by Christie

Whatever choice you make though it shouldn't be based on what your family wants you to do - they've IMO lost the right (if they ever had that right in the first place) to have any say in this.

I agree, but it's so hard to ditch the idea I've unfairly caused my family distress by being in my situation.

FWIW, I know a few people my age living in the area, and unless they're married with two incomes, most live with a parent or both parents well into and beyond their 30s. It sounds bad to everyone else, but rents here for an okay apartment in an okay area run $1500-2500 a month. One of my closest friends moved to Pittsburgh this winter and the rents are like two-thirds lower there. It's just a sucky place to have your roots, in a way.

Originally Posted by Menolly

Ana, another vote for placing more importance on getting the kids back to the school they miss so badly. Our family being in a remote location with one small child is not something I would've considered back in the day. YMMV, but for me an hour's drive to the nearest hospital is not something I would have considered acceptable with a small child.

I think about it, and I'd love to- but it's kind of in a geographically irrelevant area in that we have no roots there and it has no other benefits (like upstate.) My father's girlfriend lives in Kingston, so I know he breezes through there from time to time, too, which is a boon.

Also, while I can be more "there" telecommuting (and not paying $250-450 a week for a sitter) I also don't know if I could swing tuition.

As far as your mom's actions, it sounds to me that she's holding the grudge against you very tightly. So tightly it doesn't matter what you decide--to her it's going to be a bad idea or the wrong thing to do. If this is true, mark her off your list of people you're going to listen to at this point. Ditto your sister since it sounds like she's just holding onto a potential babysitter. This doesn't seem quite fair to me, to try to push you to stay in a home you despise just so you're available to babysit.

I don't know if my sister would *let* me babysit. Actually, the most motivating thing that made me set a mental deadline to resolve the situation last month was my son telling me how excited he is about the new baby, but that we'd have to go to her house to see it, as we can't "bring a baby into this house."

My mom is, generally, dissatisfied. I inherited my father's disposition, outlook and pragmatism, and she and I don't think alike at all. The sad thing is that she actually draws all her happiness from my kids. While her assessment of the situation concludes in me being an irresponsible moron, it comes from a good place- she wants my kids to have disney vacations and nice rooms and basically a lifestyle that has evaporated for the middle class. I do think that if circumstances continue their steady incline of okayness, I can one day have a lot of the things she wants me to have, but a lot of her hopes and dreams are grounded in a time where my parents were together and things like this were more attainable for young parents.

Originally Posted by Ramblin' Dave

It's none of my business, but didn't your ex cheat on you, or dump you for someone younger, or some such? How your mother could classify that as "your choice" is absolutely beyond me, and it would take away any credibility she had with respect to this decision if I were in your shoes. In fact, it might even be good for you to get away from someone like that.

Originally Posted by Barbara

I could be wrong about this, but I believe the choices Ana's mom is reacting to were Ana's choice to marry the guy she did and then to have children with him. That Ana's ex subsequently acted like a hoon would be, in her mother's eyes, no more than natural and foreseeable consequence of the original choice of him as a marriage partner.

Originally Posted by Barbara

Also, I never got that Ana's mom was criticizing Ana for her marriage's ending; I always got that she was criticizing her for its having begun, and then for the "mistake" to have been compounded by the arrival of children.

Barbara's right- and I have to say I am amazed at everyone's powers of recollection here. I may have given the impression that my ex, Stephen, was running around on me and a cad. He was and was, to a degree. The exact sequence of events was more that he refused to work further on our marriage and while I held out for counseling, he insisted on going the "casual sex" route.

Why this is relevant: he was no skirt chaser when I married him. He was a country bumpkin from the middle of nowhere, working in a tractor garage for 2 quid an hour. (It was actually 1.75.) He was a virgin and had never had a girlfriend. When we moved to Brooklyn after my parents split up, the bars on every block and interest of women to whom he had no obligations were far too tempting to him. And since I know he's reading this, I wasn't innocent in that I didn't comply with his three requests to "save" our marriage.

My mother liked him well enough until he had problems paying rent, it was my father who felt (and kept it to myself) that he wasn't father and husband material from the get-go- my mother mainly objected to us having kids before we owned a home and so soon after he moved here. My parents didn't feel he had one foot out the door- for the first few years of our marriage, he adored me, and fidelity wasn't an issue. They were (rightly) worried about his lack of ambition, and his lack of interest in providing security for us while I was busy having babies and taking care of them. Even now, the women in my family disapprove of my dating choices- I'm constantly urged to find a man with a good job who will "take care of me." (Which is totally out of the question- no man in his right mind would want any part of that whole fiasco so I date who pleases my eye and makes me giggle, I don't believe in husband material anymore.)

Originally Posted by Christie

What makes it even lousier is that she herself is now divorced from Ana's father because Ana's father IIRC was cheating on her. I hope she has the same standard for herself that she seems to have for Ana.

She's got a bit of cognitive dissonance there in that she doesn't see the situations as analogous. In the end, while my father did leave for another woman technically, my mother wanted him to come back and still does, and he contends he left because she sold the house in which we rented part, precipitating our move to Brooklyn and separating him from his grandkids. He says that after that he didn't want to stay around, that that was his dream house and all he wanted was to be with my kids when he got home from long days at work. It's weird for me because I hate the pain my mother has been in since my father left, but I understand why he did. The things he put up with over the years- my mother is not an easy person to live with, and he absorbed the brunt of her dissatisfaction. And he, for my whole life, worked 80+ hour weeks and he was a patient saint. I still don't really "get it."

Originally Posted by snapdragonfly

It sounds to me as if there are a special different set of rules for her than the rest of her family, and not in a very nice way.

That's certainly true- although now that my sister is pregnant and lives with her boyfriend of seven years, she's getting some of it too. I honestly think my mother just doesn't approve of having kids full stop. But being as vulnerable as I have been in the past few years, a lot of my family members have had excessive access to what should be personal parts of my life. Like when I first moved in, and my uncle came in and started reorganizing when I was at work, because my house was "embarrassing." My family's just kind of like that.

So anyway, thank you for all the input. Of course, moving should just be a kind of "can I afford it? Do I want to live there?" thing, but it's a little more complicated for me, so thanks. I kind of think of my little fractured family as a free radical, but we are also slowly adjusting to everything. Before, when I was working long hours mainly to pay a sitter, we never had time to consider this stuff.

I'm hoping to have some kind of action by December 1st, so I'll definitely update if anything happens. Thanks again.

[Ana Ng]

Originally Posted by Zorro

Ana, I know you had a negative impression of NJ from your brief stay in Newark, but parts of western NJ are tres cheap compared to the eastern part, and certainly compared to LI, and they're not as isolated as it sounds like the area you're talking about is. Most of them do get cell reception, for example. Also, but you'd geographically be between me and PI, and would therefore feel like you had at least something of a friend network out here.

Don't forget- I lived in Little Falls. I did like it a lot there- as a Long Islander, the relatively easy drive to Manhattan was shocking and the area reminded me of upstate a little. I really liked it a lot there, but I had to move because I was crashing and burning financially without child support (plus 20 hours of babysitting, plus a commute to Manhattan, no one I knew nearby) but it was one of those impossible choices. I felt so awful about pulling my kids out of Teddy McArdle, but I had no choice- and I even liked Newark. My room in the loft was huge and I always had someone to eat dinner or go to Trader Joe's with. And Newark has Brazilian burgers.

Newark fascinated me- I was constantly shocked that it had yet to be overrun with hipsters, too.