New puppy: water bowl at night or not?

[Dactyl]

My Mum has a miniature schnauzer puppy which she collected on Thursday.

This is her first dog and she has spent ages reading all possible material and speaking to dog owners to prepare herself. However, there is one answer the books don't seem to cover. Should you leave a new puppy an accessible supply of water at night? Timmy (the dog) has a habit of sleeping with some part of his body in the water and she's worried he may do himself a mischief, however, at the same time she doesn't want him deny him access to water.

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

It is HIGHLY recommended that you restrict water access for puppies. Makes potty training FAR easier (especially with small breeds which have small bladders).

Pick the water up at night. He'll be totally fine, and there will be less of a chance of accidents.

Is she crate training?

[ElectricBarbarella]

I just wanted to hijack for a brief moment and tell Ryda that I purchased two things at her suggestion:

Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's soul--moist cans, adult forumla and a puppy formula called Fromm Family Puppy Gold.

She was not gaining much weight from eating the big boys food so I now feed her 3 times a day with a mix of the moist/dry and about a cups worth total each feeding. She's scarfing it down each time.

Back on topic--I will second Ryda. You never leave the water dish down for puppies. Too many accidents occurr in the night.

(oh and she's starting to get her crate. She'll sleep the first hour with me and about 4-5 hours in her crate, then the last hour or so in the morning with me again. She's still very mommy centric)

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by ElectricBarbarella

I just wanted to hijack for a brief moment and tell Ryda that I purchased two things at her suggestion:

Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's soul--moist cans, adult forumla and a puppy formula called Fromm Family Puppy Gold.

She was not gaining much weight from eating the big boys food so I now feed her 3 times a day with a mix of the moist/dry and about a cups worth total each feeding. She's scarfing it down each time.

Back on topic--I will second Ryda. You never leave the water dish down for puppies. Too many accidents occurr in the night.

(oh and she's starting to get her crate. She'll sleep the first hour with me and about 4-5 hours in her crate, then the last hour or so in the morning with me again. She's still very mommy centric)

Yay, puppies!

You do owe us an updated pic, EB....

[ElectricBarbarella]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

Yay, puppies!

You do owe us an updated pic, EB....

As You Wish...

Andromeda and her binkie (yes, she has a binkie):
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1652162059

And yes, she sleeps with it:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1652162059

[Dactyl]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

It is HIGHLY recommended that you restrict water access for puppies. Makes potty training FAR easier (especially with small breeds which have small bladders).

Pick the water up at night. He'll be totally fine, and there will be less of a chance of accidents.

Is she crate training?

Thank you. I'd hope you reply as I respect your opinion on canine issues. Timmy is currently restricted to an area which has tiled floors. The first day he only managed to wee once outside, however, he increased that on the second day to about a third of the time. My Mum says she can now tell when he needs a poo and grabs him beforehand.

Can you clarify what you mean by crate training? I'm not really au fait with the lingo. Timmy has a crate which he sleeps in at night. He also has a cage but he has rejected it in favour of the crate he was brought home in.

[ElectricBarbarella]

Crate training is teaching them where their bed is at night and that they won't go to the bathroom anywhere but outside. You can try keeping him in the crate most of the day only bringing him outside every hour to pee. In a few weeks (maybe sooner) he'll get the idea that the crate is good and not to go in and outside is where you go.

We use our crates for sleeping and for putting them in there when we leave the house. Otherwise, they'll eat my bread and dump the trash can. Ryda can better explain crate training but he will eventually get used to the cage once he gets a little bigger. Right now, like my puppy, he goes with what he knows and what is "safe" to him. She sleeps with me most of the night and in the crate the rest. This is her comfort zone at the moment.

As she gets older, she'll get more into sleeping in the crate.

[Mickey is a gyrl]

Dactyl and EB, your pictures have reduced me to squeals and "looka the puppy!!!" while practically shoving the computer screen in SO's face.

I think that I'll have to borrow my friend's dog for the weekend.

[ElectricBarbarella]

Glad I could contribute to your SQUEEEE'ing

[Dactyl]

Originally Posted by Mickey is a gyrl

Dactyl and EB, your pictures have reduced me to squeals and "looka the puppy!!!" while practically shoving the computer screen in SO's face.

I think that I'll have to borrow my friend's dog for the weekend.

I'm glad you appreciated the photos. Unfortunately Timmy won't stay still long enough for a decent picture to be taken. I took about thirty and have posted the two when he happened to be looking at the camera. He is far more interested in chasing the bottom of people's trousers.

[Dactyl]

Originally Posted by ElectricBarbarella

Crate training is teaching them where their bed is at night and that they won't go to the bathroom anywhere but outside. You can try keeping him in the crate most of the day only bringing him outside every hour to pee. In a few weeks (maybe sooner) he'll get the idea that the crate is good and not to go in and outside is where you go.

Ah ok. Timmy sleeps in his crate but spends most of his daytime with the freedom of the kitchen and "the snug" (both have tiled floors).

He is meant to pee in the garden, and is praised and rewarded when he does so, however, most of his pees are indoors.

We use our crates for sleeping and for putting them in there when we leave the house. Otherwise, they'll eat my bread and dump the trash can.

I believe that is the eventual plan. Well actually the cage, which is bigger than the crate, is the eventual plan but Timmy doesn't seem too keen at the moment.

Ryda can better explain crate training but he will eventually get used to the cage once he gets a little bigger. Right now, like my puppy, he goes with what he knows and what is "safe" to him. She sleeps with me most of the night and in the crate the rest. This is her comfort zone at the moment.

If you put Timmy on your lap he will fall asleep. However, we have been warned against it in case the puppy becomes too accustomed to sleeping with someone else nearby. At the moment he sleeps in his crate with a hot water bottle (which isn't particularly hot) and a clock which ticks loudly.

As she gets older, she'll get more into sleeping in the crate.

Hopefully he'll eventually like his cage but for the time being he seems happy in his crate. Even if he does have a bizarre habit of sleeping with his paw in water.

[Radical Dory]

Originally Posted by Dactyl

I'm glad you appreciated the photos. Unfortunately Timmy won't stay still long enough for a decent picture to be taken. I took about thirty and have posted the two when he happened to be looking at the camera. He is far more interested in chasing the bottom of people's trousers.

If you can whistle or make a sudden (not frightening noise), he might hesitate for a second, long enough to take a pic. As a bonus: perky puppy ears. Toys also distract suitably (and have the bonus of teaching him to chew on toys instead of pant legs).

Congratulations on becoming a schnauzer snopester. Timmy looks quite a bit like Oscar, Schnauzer of DOOM! when he was quite young. So fluffy and cute!

[ElectricBarbarella]

If you put Timmy on your lap he will fall asleep. However, we have been warned against it in case the puppy becomes too accustomed to sleeping with someone else nearby. At the moment he sleeps in his crate with a hot water bottle (which isn't particularly hot) and a clock which ticks loudly.

too late for me. she was used to someone sleeping nearby when the former's put her in the same crate with mommy--even after she weaned.

I don't quite believe that about them getting used to it. They may very well, but honestly, the dog is meant to be a companion, I treat mine like my children (obviously with the whole binky thing).. I can't help it.

[Morrigan]

Originally Posted by ElectricBarbarella

Crate training is teaching them where their bed is at night and that they won't go to the bathroom anywhere but outside. You can try keeping him in the crate most of the day only bringing him outside every hour to pee. In a few weeks (maybe sooner) he'll get the idea that the crate is good and not to go in and outside is where you go.

We use our crates for sleeping and for putting them in there when we leave the house. Otherwise, they'll eat my bread and dump the trash can. Ryda can better explain crate training but he will eventually get used to the cage once he gets a little bigger. Right now, like my puppy, he goes with what he knows and what is "safe" to him. She sleeps with me most of the night and in the crate the rest. This is her comfort zone at the moment.

As she gets older, she'll get more into sleeping in the crate.

Actually, that's NOT how you crate train. That's a GOOD way to make him HATE the crate.

Put him in a crate at night, but potty him right before you put him in.

In the morning (right away), pick him up and put him right outside where you want him to go. Tell him a key word (mine is "go potty") and praise him when he goes. If he doesn't, just calmly put him back in the crate and try again in 10-15 minutes. Do that until he pees.

After you feed him, put him right outside. If he doesn't go #2, put him back in the crate and repeat the upper directions, or watch him closely. If he starts to circle and sniff the ground, or go behind furniture (trying to hide), put him outside.

Potty him every 2-3 hours-watch him. He'll start sniffing and dissapearing when he has to go. Always take him out the same door, and always praise him when he's gone. Always use the key word so he associates the word with the action.

If there's an accident, just take him right outside, and tell him "good boy". Don't get mad.

You can also use the crate training directions for confining him to a small room.

My Shelties are housebroke at 6 weeks because of the above training. It won't take him long to associate the door with having to go. Eventually, he'll tell you when he has to go-he'll beg from you, or sit at the door, or run from you to the door etc.

THAT'S how you crate train. You should NEVER leave a puppy all day (and night in essence) in a crate, just to teach him to pee outside. You ONLY leave him in the crate UNTIL he's pottied. THEN you leave him "loose" in the house. (Loose but with close attention.)

Morrigan

[Xia]

The goal in housetraining a young puppy is to prevent accidents in the house as much as possible. Puppies should be taken out to their potty area after (every time) eating, drinking, sleeping, and playing. I like to use the "umbilical cord" method of potty training for puppies because it involves keeping the puppy right near you so that you can predict when they need to go out and get them outside before an accident occurs. It also helps with bonding while keeping them out of trouble. You can read about how umbilical cord training works here.


I also recommend the free book "Before You Get Your Puppy" which can as a free service is being offered for download online here. I know it says "before" but the information is useful if they already have the puppy as well. The author also has a book called "After Your Get Your Puppy but it is not available free.
For more good puppy info, check out the Dog Scouts' website Puppy Care and Training section. I especially recommend the page "How To Socialize - Critical socialization periods" as it explains the important role of socialization, the critical socialization periods and what the owner should be doing with the puppy during those periods.

[ElectricBarbarella]

Originally Posted by Morrigan

Actually, that's NOT how you crate train. That's a GOOD way to make him HATE the crate.

Put him in a crate at night, but potty him right before you put him in.

In the morning (right away), pick him up and put him right outside where you want him to go. Tell him a key word (mine is "go potty") and praise him when he goes. If he doesn't, just calmly put him back in the crate and try again in 10-15 minutes. Do that until he pees.

After you feed him, put him right outside. If he doesn't go #2, put him back in the crate and repeat the upper directions, or watch him closely. If he starts to circle and sniff the ground, or go behind furniture (trying to hide), put him outside.

Potty him every 2-3 hours-watch him. He'll start sniffing and dissapearing when he has to go. Always take him out the same door, and always praise him when he's gone. Always use the key word so he associates the word with the action.

If there's an accident, just take him right outside, and tell him "good boy". Don't get mad.

You can also use the crate training directions for confining him to a small room.

My Shelties are housebroke at 6 weeks because of the above training. It won't take him long to associate the door with having to go. Eventually, he'll tell you when he has to go-he'll beg from you, or sit at the door, or run from you to the door etc.

THAT'S how you crate train. You should NEVER leave a puppy all day (and night in essence) in a crate, just to teach him to pee outside. You ONLY leave him in the crate UNTIL he's pottied. THEN you leave him "loose" in the house. (Loose but with close attention.)

Morrigan

that's in essence what I said (and what I do) except I did not type it all out. The only difference is the time frame I put in versus what you put. For the record, puppy is OUT of her crate all day **except** during naps (which she does) and sleep at night. She's either on my lap, on the floor pillow by my feet or on a couch on someone else's lap. If she isn't there, she's terrorizing the bone or the other two dogs

We don't put her *right* out after eating. We wait about 15 minutes, give things time to digest. But it's easy to tell with her, her little butt pops out, swells a bit, when she has to go.

The only time they spend "all day" in the crate is when we are gone and that's another purpose for the crate.

And, also for the record, you'll get differing opinions on *how* to crate train. Some think it's cruel (period) and others do the time frame I said, and others still do the time frame you said. It's all about knowing what your puppy needs and one might need that security for a short time frame while another only needs it for sleeping. And some still, use it for a "time out" as well as sleeping and potty training method.

What I said was not bad. You make it sound like I want to kill his puppy. I don't, I just gave what I knew crate training as and even said Ryda could better explain it.

[Morrigan]

Um, no, that's not "in essence what you said." What you said was "You can try keeping him in the crate most of the day only bringing him outside every hour to pee. In a few weeks (maybe sooner) he'll get the idea that the crate is good and not to go in and outside is where you go."

Which is no where near what I said. The method I posted is by which MOST dog trainers I know and have worked with use.

Your method of keeping them in the crate at all times except to potty IS cruel.

[ElectricBarbarella]

So to further threadjack:

what is this butt-backing up she's doing now? She just turned 3months old and in play (rough play) with the boys, she's started backing her butt up to their face. They are both fixed and she is on her way to being fixed (I have to start a series of 3 every 3week appointments, ending in her spaying).

The butt backing up thing is driving the boys crazy. They don't like it and she's getting pretty frequent with it.

[llewtrah]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

It is HIGHLY recommended that you restrict water access for puppies. Makes potty training FAR easier (especially with small breeds which have small bladders).

Pick the water up at night. He'll be totally fine, and there will be less of a chance of accidents.

Is she crate training?

Ryda - crate training seems to be a USAnian thing; certainly the term "crate training" is USAnian. Here it is not normal to leave a dog caged though they might be restricted to one room (having checked this with a friend who rescues GSDs and deals regularly with dog rescues, her smallest bedroom is the dog-room during training). Also, here in the UK, restricting access to water, except before surgery, could be a breach of our Animal Welfare Regulations which generally require water to be available at all times.

[Morrigan]

llewtrah, that's part of the reason I like my method for crate training, as it works for small rooms. My friend just trained her Elkhound/GSD that way, only using her kitchen instead of a crate. (And babygates to keep Echo in the kitchen!)

I don't think that we're (USA) supposed to restrict water, but I also don't see the problem of restricting it at nighttime, when housebreaking a puppy.