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Old 23 August 2009, 04:25 AM
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Icon402 Ice knife murder

Comment: I heard that a person was murdered by being stabbed by a knife
made of ice. However, the criminal got away because the evidence had
melted.
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  #2  
Old 23 August 2009, 04:53 AM
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It's a classic of murder mysteries, but, really, it's very little different from any other murder where the weapon is disposed of. What, in real terms, is the difference between this, and stabbing someone with an ordinary knife, which is then ditched at sea, dropped into a well, or buried in the desert?

If the blade is left in the wound to melt, would the accumulation of water be noticed in an autopsy? If so, this technique would leave *more* evidence than would be left by an ordinary knife!

Silas
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Old 23 August 2009, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer View Post
What, in real terms, is the difference between this, and stabbing someone with an ordinary knife, which is then ditched at sea, dropped into a well, or buried in the desert?
Unlike the latter, there's no chance that the former will ever be found.
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Old 23 August 2009, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes View Post
Unlike the latter, there's no chance that the former will ever be found.
Well, that's true, but, on the other hand, there is a very distinct possibility that the tools used to create the ice implement would be found.

Besides, ice is too brittle to make a reliable weapon.
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  #5  
Old 23 August 2009, 09:57 AM
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How would anyone ever know the murder weapon was an ice knife rather than an ordinary blade? Unless the OP is implying that the suspect got away with the crime because there was no murder weapon to be used as evidence, but even then there must be witnesses who had seen the murder take place for it to be known an ice knife was used.
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Old 23 August 2009, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer View Post
It's a classic of murder mysteries, but, really, it's very little different from any other murder where the weapon is disposed of. What, in real terms, is the difference between this, and stabbing someone with an ordinary knife, which is then ditched at sea, dropped into a well, or buried in the desert?

If the blade is left in the wound to melt, would the accumulation of water be noticed in an autopsy? If so, this technique would leave *more* evidence than would be left by an ordinary knife!

Silas
I remember-correctly, I hope- a mystery story in one of Ellery Queen's anthologies- The FirstHhundred Years of Crime Fiction, I think, where the ice knife was used in a Turkish steam bath so no one noticed the excess water.
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Old 23 August 2009, 05:51 PM
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I keep thinking of just how unpractical it would be to make a working ice knife (lance or spear would be a better name) then get it to the victim and use it. I would think bludgeoning someone to death a block of ice would be much easier.
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  #8  
Old 23 August 2009, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troberg View Post
Well, that's true, but, on the other hand, there is a very distinct possibility that the tools used to create the ice implement would be found.
Tools which would likely have a plausible variety of other uses and would therefore be of little or no value as evidence.
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Old 24 August 2009, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitap View Post
I remember-correctly, I hope- a mystery story in one of Ellery Queen's anthologies- The FirstHhundred Years of Crime Fiction, I think, where the ice knife was used in a Turkish steam bath so no one noticed the excess water.
...And a tea leaf in the wound gave the game away...

- Bill Door
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  #10  
Old 24 August 2009, 05:15 AM
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A frozen leg of lamb is a much better weapon.
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Old 24 August 2009, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle View Post
A frozen leg of lamb is a much better weapon.
Especially if the investigating officers are hungry.

- Bill Door
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  #12  
Old 24 August 2009, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle View Post
A frozen leg of lamb is a much better weapon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Door View Post
Especially if the investigating officers are hungry.

- Bill Door
"Tales Of The Unexpected: Lambs To The Slaughter".
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  #13  
Old 24 August 2009, 07:24 AM
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Ronald Dahl short story first
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  #14  
Old 24 August 2009, 01:13 PM
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A similar idea was used, to great karmic satisfaction, in The Lovely Bones.
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  #15  
Old 24 August 2009, 02:54 PM
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The ice dagger (as well as bullets made of frozen blood) is mentioned in John Dickson Carr's The Hollow Man (1935), in which Carr's amateur detective Dr. Gideon Fell delivers a long lecture on "impossible" murders.
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  #16  
Old 24 August 2009, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer View Post
If the blade is left in the wound to melt, would the accumulation of water be noticed in an autopsy? If so, this technique would leave *more* evidence than would be left by an ordinary knife!
What kind of evidence would that be? You can't take fingerprints from a melted ice knife, nor can you determine its origin or link it in any other way to a suspect.

ETA:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Door View Post
...And a tea leaf in the wound gave the game away...
Okay, you've convinced me.
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  #17  
Old 24 August 2009, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joostik View Post
What kind of evidence would that be? You can't take fingerprints from a melted ice knife, nor can you determine its origin or link it in any other way to a suspect. . . .
Just the presence of water where it shouldn't be. That, in itself, might be suspicious. (I don't know enough anatomy to say whether it would be detected by the medical examiner.)

Of course, the big gaping knife-wound, with no knife to be found, would also be mildly suspicious...

Silas
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  #18  
Old 25 August 2009, 04:00 PM
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Didn't Mythbusters do both the ice knife & ice bullets & debunked that either one would work?
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  #19  
Old 25 August 2009, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas Sparkhammer View Post
Of course, the big gaping knife-wound, with no knife to be found, would also be mildly suspicious...
That's precisely what I meant: That the victim has been murdered would be quite obvious, whatever knife was used. Now how can this particular weapon be used to determine the murderer?
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  #20  
Old 25 August 2009, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIAG View Post
Didn't Mythbusters do both the ice knife & ice bullets & debunked that either one would work?
They definately did ice bullet. I don't recall them doing ice knife, though.
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