Caring for sheep

[snopes]

Comment:
In John chapter 10, Jesus describes Himself as The Good Shepherd. I've
heard it taught, on many occassions, that one of the things a good
shepherd will do with a wayward sheep is break one of its legs to keep it
from wandering. He will then bind the leg in a rough splint, and carry
the sheep around on his shoulders, tending to it while it is healing. The
sheep supposedly learns of the care of the shepherd through this process,
and in the end is no longer inclided to wander. The lesson is suggested
that God will do this at times with us (His Sheep) when we insist on
wandering away from Him. Is this something that real shepherds do?

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

This website indicates a strong no. First, you may have heard that shepherd’s often break the legs of a lamb that has continually gone astray. The idea is that as the lamb heals the shepherd will keep it by his side and handle and feed it so individually that the lamb will never stray again. A good shepherd would never do that. Angie and I cringe every time we hear that story and it’s just not true. If God wanted you to believe that, He would have written it in scripture with the other sheep analogies. There are better ways of protecting lambs from hurting themselves and wandering off.


And the only references I've found to such a story come from christian websites.

ETA: I heard this when I was a kid as well, normally as a defense of coporal punishment, and it always appalled me

[inkrose115]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

And the only references I've found to such a story come from christian websites.

ETA: I heard this when I was a kid as well, normally as a defense of coporal punishment, and it always appalled me

Not to mention that method makes absolutely no sense. If it's an analogy, it's a horrible one. I'll sick PETA it right away. Nevermind, I don't think anyone deserves PETA. But still, a truly awful analogy. Though, maybe not such a bad analogy. It does fit the mindset of several fundies I am passably familar with: crappy shepard finds way to justify brutal method of 'converting' others and bringing them to the fold.

[Floater]

Isaiah 40:11 (Where the idea of the good shepherd is from): He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young..

And then He will smite His enemies with the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Thinking about this now is making me see Jesus, the Shepherd, as Cartman in a white robe, smacking things with sticks. "That's a bad sheep!"

[Spamamander]

... and I am suck a sick puppy that "That's a bad sheep!" gave me some really awful NFBSK imagery.

[musicgeek]

Originally Posted by Spamamander

... and I am suck a sick puppy

Hopefully not sick enough that this was a Freudian slip

[inkrose115]

Originally Posted by musicgeek

Hopefully not sick enough that this was a Freudian slip

Y'know, now that you said that I have a bad mental image too. Darn.

[Artemis]

God sounds more like a loan shark or a mobster here...

After we accrue a bunch of debt for sinning and wandering from the path of light, God frowns upon us. Then he sends his crazy son after us to break our legs. After that, we'll never go wrong again--and we'll rack up mad virtue points...until we're completely spent.

(Yes, I've been watching too much Sopranos...)

[High Eight]

"Only a mile from the shepherd and his flock was a goatherd and his herd. The merest accident of microgeography had meant that the first man to hear the voice of Om, and who gave Om his view of humans, was a shepherd and not a goatherd. They have quite different ways of looking at the world, and the whole of history might have been different. For sheep are stupid, and have to be driven. But goats are intelligent, and need to be led". - Terry Pratchett, Small Gods.

[Brad from Georgia]

"Do you herd sheep?" My Grammer asked,
And Grampaw leaped in fright.
"Your Grammer's wrong," he said to me,
"Have you heard sheep is right."
--Walt Kelly

Brad "I know how to spell grammar" from Georgia

[chillas]

Originally Posted by Artemis

God sounds more like a loan shark or a mobster here...

As god sits silently and menacingly in the background, Jesus speaks...

Strayin' from the flock, huh? God don't like it when you stay from the flock. Do ya, pop? Now St. Rocco and St. Knuckles here is gonna have to show you what happens when you stay. Boys - enlighten him ...

[inkrose115]

Originally Posted by chillas

As god sits silently and menacingly in the background, Jesus speaks...

Strayin' from the flock, huh? God don't like it when you stay from the flock. Do ya, pop? Now St. Rocco and St. Knuckles here is gonna have to show you what happens when you stay. Boys - enlighten him ...

YOMANK!

[Avril]

My grandfather raised sheep and would never do such a thing. Sheep do tend to be quite attached to their shepherds, though. As soon as we went into the sheep pen, they would flock to us. Since they were roughly my height, I found this terrifying. The only time a sheep didn't come it was a lamb, who had got itself caught in the fence. My mother went to free it and we had to hold it for a while until it calmed down because it was so frightened. You do not need to do this with sheep. They don't wander off on purpose; they're not intelligent enough to know they're misbehaving. Breaking a leg to teach a sheep a lesson would be unspeakable cruelty, but it also wouldn't work in the first place.

Avril

[HollowMan]

ARGUMENT:

Originally Posted by snopes

Comment:
In John chapter 10, Jesus describes Himself as The Good Shepherd. I've
heard it taught, on many occassions, that one of the things a good
shepherd will do with a wayward sheep is break one of its legs to keep it
from wandering. He will then bind the leg in a rough splint, and carry
the sheep around on his shoulders, tending to it while it is healing. The
sheep supposedly learns of the care of the shepherd through this process,
and in the end is no longer inclided to wander. The lesson is suggested
that God will do this at times with us (His Sheep) when we insist on
wandering away from Him. Is this something that real shepherds do?

COUNTERARGUMENT:

Stephen King's Misery

[Bozone]

I've never heard this story before, and I've been in a few pretty conservative (semi-fundie) churches and have some somewhat fundie friends. Maybe being from a rural area where church members would know better has protected them from this particular story.

[Blatherskite]

I don't know if this is off topic enough to get me told off by somebody, but the subject got me wondering... why have sheep never been held sacred in Christianity? Well, maybe not sacred, because they're meant to be representative of us sinful folk, but at least tributed in some way. They might not look like the most noble of beasts, but you could say that they're emblematic of what being a good Christian is about. I want sheep glurge!

[Spam & Cookies-mmm]

We talked about this briefly on the old board.

John 10:11-18 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society



11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

I remember a story about the good shepherd leaving 99 sheep to find one lost lamb.

Matthew 18:12-13 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society



12"What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off.

There it is; good ole' synoptic gospels. There's the same story in Luke 15:1-7 and from the gnostic Gospel of Thomas

107. Jesus said, "The (Father's) kingdom is like a
shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the
largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and looked
for the one until he found it. After he had toiled, he
said to the sheep, 'I love you more than the ninety-
nine.'"

very interesting.

Nothing anywhere in the Bible about breaking legs. This is what I think typifies "psuedo christian moronity". It's people like that who make me pray for the return of Jesus or the invention of a time machine so we can get him.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Blatherskite

I don't know if this is off topic enough to get me told off by somebody, but the subject got me wondering... why have sheep never been held sacred in Christianity? Well, maybe not sacred, because they're meant to be representative of us sinful folk, but at least tributed in some way. They might not look like the most noble of beasts, but you could say that they're emblematic of what being a good Christian is about. I want sheep glurge!

Unlike goats, who are emblematic of snopesters. Goats, as another poster mentioned, are smarter than sheep, free-thinkers, if you will. Plus, they have bigger genitals.