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Old 29 July 2009, 05:26 PM
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Default Miracle of St Bernadette's Remains

Comment: Is this picture real?

These are the pictures of St. Bernadette who died 122 years ago in Lourdes, France and was buried; her body was only discovered 30 years ago. After church officials decided to examine it they discovered her body is still fresh until today and if you ever go to Lourdes, France you can see her in the church in Lourdes. Her body isn't decomposing because during her lifetime, the Mother of Jesus would always appear to her and give messages and advice to all mankind on the right way to live on this earth. Many miracles have taken place in this place of Lourdes and still do until today.

Scientists have wondered about this because it defies the laws of nature and instead of expecting a foul smell of a dead body, a fragrance of flowers can be experienced when the glass of coffin is opened. Some say they experience the fragrance by just going near the coffin. You can visit the Church of Lourdes, France to verify yourself the authenticity of this truly wonderful experience and see for yourself a living miracle of our times.

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Old 29 July 2009, 05:32 PM
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Wikipedia article

Quote:
St. Bernadette Soubirous at Nevers was exhumed and put on display with a wax mask and wax hand coverings....

...The Church exhumed the corpse a second time on April 3, 1919. A doctor who examined the body noted, "The body is practically mummified, covered with patches of mildew and quite a notable layer of salts, which appear to be calcium salts. ... The skin has disappeared in some places, but it is still present on most parts of the body."
In 1925, the church exhumed the body for a third time. They took relics, which were sent to Rome. A precise imprint of the face was molded so that the firm of Pierre Imans in Paris could make a wax mask based on the imprints and on some genuine photos. This was common practice for relics in France, as it was feared that the blackish tinge to the face and the sunken eyes and nose would make an unpleasant impression on the public.
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Old 29 July 2009, 05:38 PM
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Looks like wax to me.

Was nail polishing common 122 years ago? And why would one expect "a foul smell of a dead body" after that much time - wouldn't it be pretty much mummified or decomposed?

ETA: Spanked whilst answering the phone! Owie!
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  #4  
Old 29 July 2009, 06:54 PM
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Default miracle of St.Bernadette's Remains

I believe they put some sort of wax over the face after it had been exhumed for a second time do to the face turning dark. I one had a book from the library about Lourdes and St.Bernadette.
Her body actually lies in the chapel of the motherhouse of the Sisters of Charity of Nevers,in France.The sisters don't have any convents in the US at this time, but do in England.Go to Tan Books, Amazon and Barnes and Noble, and type in Joan Cruz. She has written several books on this subject.

The smell of flowers,especially roses are common reports when these saints bodies were first exhumed.Sometime sthey are exhumed a second time.
I don't think they have found the answer to why these remains are pretty intact.
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Old 30 July 2009, 09:57 PM
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I think in some cases it's been attributed to saponification.
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Old 30 July 2009, 10:03 PM
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And from what I know about glass coffins and preservation like this, the coffin is sealed air tight because to allow any air in would increase decomp further on the body (that is, not the rotting dead body decomp, but the regular "body is doing what it is supposed to do at death" decomp. You know, turning to dust, only not as dramatic).

All of the mummies on display in museums are on display in air tight coffins/boxes for this reason. Watching any of the Discovery/Nat Geo specials on mummies tells you this as well.

(not disagreeing with the wax thing either.)

So my point was--I highly doubt they are opening/closing this coffin.
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Old 31 July 2009, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouse goddess View Post
I think in some cases it's been attributed to saponification.
As in, turning to soap? Can that happen to body fats naturally over time?

(Went to check - I'm back!)

Apparently so. Huh.

Quote:
Saponification can also refer to the other soft tissue in a conversion of the fat of a corpse into adipocere, often called "grave wax."
Ewww.
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Old 31 July 2009, 01:19 AM
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Adipocere also occurs with floaters--bodies left in water for a long period of time. That's usually when you see it most.

Either way, it's a gorgeous picture and I'm thinking of drawing it. Would that be sacriligeous?
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Old 31 July 2009, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricBarbarella View Post
Either way, it's a gorgeous picture and I'm thinking of drawing it. Would that be sacriligeous?
I doubt it would be, unless you we're drawing it in a disrespectful way, which I doubt. I would love to see the finished drawing, it is a very nice picture.

I'm with the wax theory. The hands don't look natural, they look like wax. But I'm curious about the whole mummification thing.
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Old 31 July 2009, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleAAA View Post
I doubt it would be, unless you we're drawing it in a disrespectful way, which I doubt. I would love to see the finished drawing, it is a very nice picture.

I'm with the wax theory. The hands don't look natural, they look like wax. But I'm curious about the whole mummification thing.
http://www.catholicpilgrims.com/lour...dette_body.htm

Google her name "Saint Bernadette" and you get a lot of hits about it. I found more pictures to draw as well. She was very pretty and the images (I am fond of death images from the past--specifically "sleeping beauties" as well) are just gorgeous to look at.

MusicGeek's wiki link will be backed up by my link.

Last edited by ElectricBarbarella; 31 July 2009 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 31 July 2009, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricBarbarella View Post
Either way, it's a gorgeous picture and I'm thinking of drawing it. Would that be sacriligeous?
About as sacriligeous as the many thousands of paintings, drawings and other depictions of Christ on the cross IMO - that is not at all.
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Old 31 July 2009, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddylizard View Post
About as sacriligeous as the many thousands of paintings, drawings and other depictions of Christ on the cross IMO - that is not at all.
Well, what EB neglected to mention was that she was going to draw it in ink distilled from her own urine on parchment made from the skin of an orphaned child while repeating "Hail Satan!" over and over again.

--Logoboros
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Old 31 July 2009, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logoboros View Post
Well, what EB neglected to mention was that she was going to draw it in ink distilled from her own urine on parchment made from the skin of an orphaned child while repeating "Hail Satan!" over and over again.

--Logoboros
I guess it depends then, is it a baptized orphan?
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Old 31 July 2009, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logoboros View Post
Well, what EB neglected to mention was that she was going to draw it in ink distilled from her own urine on parchment made from the skin of an orphaned child while repeating "Hail Satan!" over and over again.

--Logoboros
bwhahahaha! okay I needed this laugh.







(and technically, I am going to use my computer, digital art media, but hey, blood and urine seem to make a nice color of paint)
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  #15  
Old 31 July 2009, 07:51 PM
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Poor Bernadette. She's dead, and she's still expected to undergo wax treatments to conform to society's beauty ideals. A girl can't get a break!
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Old 31 July 2009, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
...as it was feared that the blackish tinge to the face and the sunken eyes and nose would make an unpleasant impression on the public.
Ya think?

There's a ton of stuff on the Incorruptibles on the net.

Not sure how valid any of the claims are and even if you could come up with concrete scientific proof, most believers would still say it's the work of God.

The movie "Song of Bernadette" is one of my faves. It's worth if for the small performance Vincent Prices gives.

The hubby's former boss went to Lourdes & brought us back some water & a rosary. Not sure if either will do us any good but we kept both.
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Old 01 August 2009, 01:34 AM
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RCIAG- reading your link.
What is a canonical opening of the tomb? Are all canonized saints subject to having their remains checked on at a later date?

The link is interesting, in that I never knew there were so many Incorruptibles, and I'm glad they included the pictures, but its bias towards Catholicism is funny.
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Old 03 August 2009, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouse goddess View Post
RCIAG- reading your link.
What is a canonical opening of the tomb? Are all canonized saints subject to having their remains checked on at a later date?

The link is interesting, in that I never knew there were so many Incorruptibles, and I'm glad they included the pictures, but its bias towards Catholicism is funny.
Well, if you go back to the main page, they have a number of very Catholic links. I don't think any of the other Christian religions believe in saying the Rosary, doing Novenas, or the effects of a Scapular.

I was a bit surprised, however, about their anti-evolution page. The Roman Catholic Church has for a long time (at least since Vatican II, I know, not long in church time, but longer than most on this board have been alive) said that evolution does not conflict with church teachings - the Bible says that God created the animals, it doesn't say how. God may very well have created Man by starting with a single cell organism and evolving it over billions of years.
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  #19  
Old 03 August 2009, 06:11 PM
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I just assumed that site was a Catholic-run site since that whole Incorruptible thing seems to be mostly a Catholic thing. Not that there aren't other holy folks that have been preserved like that, but I've alway associated that particular tern, Incorruptible, with the Catholic faith.

Several of those on that page have wax faces & hands too.

I've no clue what a canonical opening of a tomb is. I'd guess it's related to them being sainted in some way. Honestly though, I've no clue.

I'm not Catholic but I find this stuff fascinating, mostly for the really-old-dead-people factor.
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Old 03 August 2009, 07:31 PM
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Oh no, don't get me wrong...my reaction wasn't "oh wow, this site is really Catholic." it was more giggling at the logic of the site "Guess what? Of all the Incorruptibles found, not ONE wasn't Catholic!eleventy"

I agree Dr. Winston, I was surprised at the anti evolution bit as well.
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