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  #1  
Old 29 June 2009, 07:44 PM
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snopes snopes is offline
 
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Mexico Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal

Something to consider even if you don't live in California

Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal

Here is an example of why hiring illegal aliens is not economically
productive for the State of California ...

You have 2 families..."Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have 2
parents, 2 children and live in California. "Joe Legal" works in
construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with
payroll taxes deducted...."Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has
"NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per
year.

Now take 30% away for state federal tax, Joe Legal now has $31,231.00

Jose Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per
year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes... Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00

Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00
per month, $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $19,231.00

Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and
local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00

Joe Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare.
Joe Legal pays for food $1,000.00 per month, $12,000.00 per year. Joe
Legal now has $7,231.00

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and
Welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,000.00 per month. $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal
is now in the hole minus (-) $4,769.00

Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal
pays rent. $500.00 per month. $6,000.00 per year Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe
Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a
government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school
ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services,
but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Don't vote/support any politician that supports illegal aliens...Its PAST
time to take a stand for America and Americans!
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  #2  
Old 29 June 2009, 07:45 PM
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Tarquin Farquart Tarquin Farquart is offline
 
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Give Jose Illegal a Social Security number.

Problem solved.
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  #3  
Old 29 June 2009, 07:56 PM
Ellestar Ellestar is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart View Post
Give Jose Illegal a Social Security number.

Problem solved.
Exactly. This post seems to be targeting those who would be hiring illegal workers. However, those who are hiring illegal workers are still up a good $18,000 a year (according to the math in the OP). In a capitalistic society, companies are generally going to hire the cheapest workers to increase their own profits. I don't think pleading the case of a hypothetical construction worker is going to change many minds when it comes to such increased profit margins.
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  #4  
Old 29 June 2009, 07:56 PM
Sue Bee Sue Bee is offline
 
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Give Joe government health coverage. There, he saves 12K a year.
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  #5  
Old 29 June 2009, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart View Post
Give Jose Illegal a Social Security number. Problem solved.
Actually, many illegals work under other people's Social Security numbers, which means that not only are they subject to withholding for state and federal taxes (for which they can't claim refunds), but they're also paying into the Social Security system as well (even though they cannot collect benefits from it).

Plus, even the person who gets paid completely under the table is still paying state sales taxes every time he purchases consumers goods, a whole slew of state, federal, and other taxes every time he buys gasoline, etc.
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  #6  
Old 29 June 2009, 08:13 PM
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Tarquin Farquart Tarquin Farquart is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellestar View Post
However, those who are hiring illegal workers are still up a good $18,000 a year (according to the math in the OP).
That's a good point. Hasn't the OP heard of the trickle-down theory>
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  #7  
Old 29 June 2009, 08:37 PM
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NorthernLite NorthernLite is offline
 
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Hang on, hang on.

Quote:
Now take 30% away for state federal tax, Joe Legal now has $31,231.00

.....

Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00
per month, $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $19,231.00
Joe pays 30% income tax and still has to get health insurance? For some reason I thought that one of the big complaints about going to a Canadian style health system is that it would cost the taxpayer more. I make a little more than Joe and pay similar taxes (if not less) and the only extra health care costs I have is my drug and dental plan which comes to about $170 per month.
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  #8  
Old 29 June 2009, 08:46 PM
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DemonWolf DemonWolf is offline
 
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Wolf

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLite View Post
For some reason I thought that one of the big complaints about going to a Canadian style health system is that it would cost the taxpayer more.
I think that's the point - we already pay about 30% (give or take) and those who oppose it fear that a national healthcare program will raise taxes far higher than that.
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  #9  
Old 29 June 2009, 09:00 PM
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Beachlife! Beachlife! is online now
 
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Jolly Roger

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLite View Post
... I make a little more than Joe and pay similar taxes (if not less) and the only extra health care costs I have is my drug and dental plan which comes to about $170 per month.
You pay $170 per month for a drug and dental plan? Wow, that's almost twice what I pay for my oldest daughter's health insurance.

How does that compare to what the average Canadian pays?
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  #10  
Old 29 June 2009, 09:41 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
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Lets see...

Jose is actually 20th generation "Californian" since his family has lived there for about 400 years. Joe on the other hand just moved there last summer...

There were "hispanics" in California before there were "whites" in all thirteen of the original colonies.
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  #11  
Old 29 June 2009, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
Lets see...

Jose is actually 20th generation "Californian" since his family has lived there for about 400 years. Joe on the other hand just moved there last summer...

There were "hispanics" in California before there were "whites" in all thirteen of the original colonies.
If Jose was a 20th generation Califonian he would not be illegal. Also California was full of Mexicans before there were whites in the 13 original colonies.
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  #12  
Old 29 June 2009, 10:11 PM
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AnglRdr AnglRdr is offline
 
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Also, if Joe Legal is paying 30% in taxes making $52k/year with two kids, he needs a new tax preparer.
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  #13  
Old 29 June 2009, 10:11 PM
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Jahungo Jahungo is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
Lets see...

Jose is actually 20th generation "Californian" since his family has lived there for about 400 years. Joe on the other hand just moved there last summer...

There were "hispanics" in California before there were "whites" in all thirteen of the original colonies.
First off, that's not really relevant. Yes, the OP has racist undertones, but what it is really attacking is not Hispanics, but illegal immigrants and particularly undocumented, illegal workers.

Second, I don't believe that is true. According to wikipedia, there were not Spanish settlers in "Alta California" until "the last quarter of the 18th century."

That's not to say the OP isn't totally out there and full of problems, just responding to your post.
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  #14  
Old 29 June 2009, 10:17 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Dabble View Post
If Jose was a 20th generation Califonian he would not be illegal.
That's pretty much my point. Why assume that a hispanic first name means the person is illegal while a WASP first name means the person is legal? Are all illegals hispanic? Are all hispanics illegals?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Dabble View Post
Also California was full of Mexicans before there were whites in the 13 original colonies.
I thought that was what I said? Actually, there were hispanics before there were Mexicans, and not all hispanics are Mexican (or have Mexican ancestry).
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  #15  
Old 29 June 2009, 10:22 PM
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Jahungo Jahungo is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnglRdr View Post
Also, if Joe Legal is paying 30% in taxes making $52k/year with two kids, he needs a new tax preparer.
It would be pretty much spot on, if you ignore deductions for children (which is obviously a problem):
Total income tax rate for 52,000: 13.39%
CA State Income Tax for 52,000: 9.3%
Social security tax: 6.2%
Medicare Tax: 1.45%
Total: 30.34%

30.34% of $52k: $15,777
Less 2 child tax credits ($1k eac): $13,777

Effective tax rate: 26.5%

Of course, there may be other deductions as well, which would further reduce the effective tax rate.
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  #16  
Old 29 June 2009, 10:24 PM
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Simply Madeline Simply Madeline is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahungo View Post
Of course, there may be other deductions as well, which would further reduce the effective tax rate.
Like his personal exemption ($3500)?
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  #17  
Old 29 June 2009, 10:24 PM
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Ana Ng Ana Ng is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
That's pretty much my point. Why assume that a hispanic first name means the person is illegal while a WASP first name means the person is legal? Are all illegals hispanic? Are all hispanics illegals?
Yeah, I take exception to that. My dad's name is Joe, and we're of Itralian heritage. Don't mix us up with protestants!
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  #18  
Old 29 June 2009, 10:33 PM
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Jahungo Jahungo is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simply Madeline View Post
Like his personal exemption ($3500)?
True, that would reduce their taxable income to $38,000.

30.34% of $38,000 is $11,529, less $2,000 for child tax credits, is $9,529.

Effective tax rate: 18.3%.

But it's pretty clear they just added up the tax rates, as I did, without considering any deductions. Which is, of course, misleading - possibly an honest mistake, possibly on purpose to inflate the numbers. Given the other numbers in the OP, I'd guess the latter.

ETA: I'm just gonna stop now...of course the exemptions are totally different for the various taxes, so this analysis is totally false.
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  #19  
Old 29 June 2009, 10:33 PM
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Mad Jay Mad Jay is offline
 
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I worked in the US for the past 11 years, and earned everything between 35K to six figures income. I have never paid 30% federal tax! My effective rate has always between 15-20%. I wouldn;t have frigging taken up citizenship if I had to pay 30% federal taxes AND pay for healthcare

Let's say Joe legal takes a standard deduction of 10,500, he would have to pay $5390 in taxes, not $21K (I am using this site to calculate the taxes)
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  #20  
Old 29 June 2009, 10:34 PM
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Richard W Richard W is offline
 
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I don't think they're assuming he's an illegal immigrant based on the fact that he's called "Jose"; it's more because his surname is "Illegal"...

I think you mean, "Why assume that an illegal immigrant would have a Spanish / Mexican first name," rather than the other way round.
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