Wasp spray vs. pepper spray

[snopes]

http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/waspspray.asp

[snopes]

Wasp sprays typically are pyrethrin-based:

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles...hrins-ext.html

I suspect that if you used wasp spray on a (potential) assailant and thereby caused that person to become dead, injured, or seriously ill, you could be liable for damages, as the product is not intended or approved to be used on humans.

[Troodon]

Originally Posted by snopes

I suspect that if you used wasp spray on a (potential) assailant and thereby caused that person to become dead, injured, or seriously ill, you could be liable for damages, as the product is not intended or approved to be used on humans.

Really? I would have assumed that you'd be fine as long as you were acting in self-defense. Presumably you can legally club an attacker with the can of wasp spray even though it isn't intended or approved for that purpose, so why couldn't you spray an attacker with it?

[snopes]

Originally Posted by Troodon

I would have assumed that you'd be fine as long as you were acting in self-defense. Presumably you can legally club an attacker with the can of wasp spray even though it isn't intended or approved for that purpose, so why couldn't you spray an attacker with it?

What if the person wasn't really an assailant, but merely someone with no harmful intent who approached you in a way that caused you to panic and spray him? And you kill him by spraying him not with an approved incapacitant, but with a poison? The doctrine of self-defense doesn't give you a free pass to kill anyone who scares you.

[Troodon]

Originally Posted by snopes

What if the person wasn't really an assailant, but merely someone with no harmful intent who approached you in a way that caused you to panic and spray him? And you kill him by spraying him not with an approved incapacitant, but with a poison? The doctrine of self-defense doesn't give you a free pass to kill anyone who scares you.

True, but are you more at-fault than you would be if you shot the person with a (legally owned) gun? You seem to be saying that a person who uses wasp spray in self-defense could be punished not only for inflicting injury or death, but also for doing so using a device not "intended or approved" for that purpose.

[Silas Sparkhammer]

Originally Posted by Troodon

True, but are you more at-fault than you would be if you shot the person with a (legally owned) gun? You seem to be saying that a person who uses wasp spray in self-defense could be punished not only for inflicting injury or death, but also for doing so using a device not "intended or approved" for that purpose.

Correct. Read the warning label on pesticide containers: there are strict regulations on their use. Violating these regulations can be an entirely separate crime, especially if premeditated intent can be shown. (And carrying such a container around while going about one's business in town would be pretty strong evidence of that.)

It's as if I were to protect myself using a blow gun (illegal in California) or dynamite (illegal lots of places.) I might not be charged for the self-defense per se, but the use of an illegal weapon would get me in big trouble.

(Some places -- California is one -- define a "weapon" in part by intent.)

Silas

ETA: the premeditated intent is a big factor. If I were out in my garden, and someone attacked me, and I made use of pesticide that simply was at hand, because I didn't have anything else to use in self-defense, the D.A. would probably not press charges. Improvising a weapon at need is different from planning ahead of time.

[snopes]

Originally Posted by Troodon

True, but are you more at-fault than you would be if you shot the person with a (legally owned) gun? You seem to be saying that a person who uses wasp spray in self-defense could be punished not only for inflicting injury or death, but also for doing so using a device not "intended or approved" for that purpose.

The point is that one of the functions of pepper spray is that it can be used to incapacitate someone without the use of lethal force, and it can therefore safely be employed in cases where the use of lethal force may not be justified. Even if you're overzealous with the pepper spray, you're not going to cause death or lasting injury (except perhaps in exceedingly rare cases), because pepper spray has been developed and tested for that type of safe use.

Now, suppose you're in a situation where the justification for using lethal force is questionable (e.g., you're trying to discourage an overly-aggressive panhandler who won't leave you alone but isn't actually threatening physical harm), but instead of spraying your target with non-harmful pepper spray, you spray him with poison instead and kill him -- you might very will be on the hook for criminal and/or civil penalties. Your gun example isn't relevant, because you have no business using a gun on someone in the first place if it isn't a case where lethal force is justified.

[rlobinske]

Technically, using wasp spray in that way is illegal. If you read the label on any pesticide, you'll find, "It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling."

[Artemis]

Also what if you put one of those vagina rape guards in and you end up needing a pelvic exam (okay, I don't know, just go with it) and let's say you're unconscious or forget that you have it in and the doctor gets all mangled--are you liable?

[Eddylizard]

Originally Posted by rlobinske

Technically, using wasp spray in that way is illegal. If you read the label on any pesticide, you'll find, "It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling."

Wouldn't the illegality occur only if the useage was in the workplace, in breach of whatever the US equivalent is of the COSHH regulations. I find it hard to believe that a private citizen would be prosecuted for laying down excess pesticide - unless they had an older pesticide that was banned between aquisition and use.

[Hero_Mike]

Wasp spray - I have some experience with this because my property backs on to green space and I get wasps in the summer. Pyrethrins affect the nervous systems of mammals (like humans) as well as insects - for humans the absorption is mainly through respiration. Breathe in a lot of wasp spray fumes and you'll notice it - but the effect isn't more serious than a headache. Spraying it on an intruder relies almost entirely upon hitting them in the eyes/face. Beyond that, the vapours just aren't strong enough to affect a human, but if they were strong enough to do so, they would affect you just like your target.

True enough, certain kinds of aerosol wasp spray can shoot out 20 feet, but if it is just about hitting someone in the face, I'd pick a better defensive weapon.

[mirfield]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Also what if you put one of those vagina rape guards in and you end up needing a pelvic exam (okay, I don't know, just go with it) and let's say you're unconscious or forget that you have it in and the doctor gets all mangled--are you liable?

Woah! "Vagina rape guards"? Is that like a mousetrap in a vagina? You don't want to forget you have that in when you go on a date.

[rlobinske]

Originally Posted by Eddylizard

Wouldn't the illegality occur only if the useage was in the workplace, in breach of whatever the US equivalent is of the COSHH regulations. I find it hard to believe that a private citizen would be prosecuted for laying down excess pesticide - unless they had an older pesticide that was banned between aquisition and use.

No, it applies to all labeled pesticides, not just restricted use materials. Granted, it is virtually never applied to average citizens for simple use. However, it can be applied when the product is misused and causes harm to another or if the user tries to claim harm was done to them when they used it in any way not labeled.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by mirfield

Woah! "Vagina rape guards"? Is that like a mousetrap in a vagina? You don't want to forget you have that in when you go on a date.

Apparently...I used to think they were urban legends but I think they're real. I think they're meant for places where the rape levels are very high.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-rape_female_condom