How to be a good Liberal

[Squishy0405]

**This may actually belong in humor but since this isn't my forte I posted it here...

How to Be a Good Liberal

You have to be against capital punishment, but support abortion on demand.

You have to believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity.

You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than U.S. nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese and North Korean Communists.

You have to believe that there was no art before federal funding.

You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical documented changes in the earth's climate and more affected by soccer moms driving SUV's.

You have to believe that gender roles are artificial but being homosexual is natural.

You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding.

You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.

You have to believe that hunters don't care about nature, but loony activists who have never been outside of

San Francisco do.

You have to believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it.

You have to believe the NRA is bad because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good because it supports certain parts of the Constitution.

You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high.

You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than

Thomas Jefferson, Gen. Robert E. Lee, Thomas Edison, and Alexander Graham Bell.

You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides are not.

You have to believe that Hillary Clinton doesn't condone Bill's sexual predations.

You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.

You have to believe that conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a perjurer and a sex offender belonged in the White House.

You have to believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites, and bestiality should be constitutionally protected, and manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal.

You have to believe that the illegal Democratic Party funding by the Chinese government and introduced to American politics by the Clinton 's is somehow in the best interests of the United States .

You have to believe that it's okay to give federal workers Christmas Day off but it's not okay to say "Merry Christmas."

You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast right wing conspiracy.

[RBCal]

Actually it should be posted on Free Republic:

FREEPER = A right-winger who repeats or reprocesses with limited changes the current talking points or message often making unreasonable vociferous personal attacks on all lefties as if required to justify their own New Troll point of view. The name comes from the self chosen nickname of the members of the right-wing political site Free Republic. While they consider themselves to be ethical trolls, many lefties disagree.

[Ramblin' Dave]

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, Gen. Robert E. Lee, Thomas Edison, and Alexander Graham Bell.

Telling examples. Of all the significant white males they could have named, they threw in Robert E. Lee. Now, taking up arms against one's own country - and doing so effectively if not overtly in support of slavery - is indeed important to American history. But somehow I don't think that's quite the way the author of this meant it. Which, as I said, is telling.

It's not even worth pointing out that absolutely nobody has ever said Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important than Jefferson, Edison or Bell.

[RainyDaze]

1. Believe the list of how to be a good liberal.

There. Wasn't that easy?

Disclaimer: This list should not be used by thinking conservatives.
Warning: Excessive use may cause foaming at the mouth and the desire to invade foreign countries.

[BringTheNoise]

...but ATM fees are too high.

Does the author enjoy paying to take his own money out of his bank account? I thought capitalists liked having money?

[Lainie]

You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.

Or you might believe that there are 4th grade teachers who are qualified to teach both.

You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high.

Do liberals complain more than conservatives about ATM fees?

You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, Gen. Robert E. Lee, Thomas Edison, and Alexander Graham Bell.

Or equally important.

You have to believe that Hillary Clinton doesn't condone Bill's sexual predations.

Or that Bill is not a sexual predator, and that what she chooses to accept or overlook in her own marriage is nobody else's business.

You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.

Liberal != Socialist

You have to believe that conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a perjurer and a sex offender belonged in the White House.

What "truth" gets conservatives, or anybody else, thrown in jail?

You have to believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites, and bestiality should be constitutionally protected, and manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal.

I didn't know that parades had sexual orientation. And when has anyone suggested that manger scenes on private property should be illegal?

Originally Posted by Ramblin' Dave

Telling examples. Of all the significant white males they could have named, they threw in Robert E. Lee. Now, taking up arms against one's own country - and doing so effectively if not overtly in support of slavery - is indeed important to American history. But somehow I don't think that's quite the way the author of this meant it. Which, as I said, is telling.

Actually, Robert E. Lee is the one Confederate figure I do consider a great American. When he confronted the question of whether to surrender to Grant, some of his aides suggested sending the soldiers into the southern mountains to fight a guerilla war against the Union. Lee refused to do so. It's sobering to imagine what would have happened if he'd followed their advice.

[Bryan With a 'Y']

They forgot the most important one!

You have to be made of straw. Preferably with a match attached.

Of course, mine's kind of hard to light - keeps getting soaked by my bleeding heart, and all.

[matches]

Just for Fun...Here's the responses

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

**This may actually belong in humor but since this isn't my forte I posted it here...

How to Be a Good Liberal

You have to be against capital punishment, but support abortion on demand.

Given that adult humans are provably thinking, can feel pain, and are possibly innocent there are many reasons to be opposed to capital punishment. As to Abortion on Demand, nothing can be proven about a fetus' capacity, and further more, outlawing abortion simply make people choose illegal abortions leading to the death of other provably thinking, innocent people who can feel pain.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity.

Given that Business left to its own devices will, and are required by their agreements with stock holders to, amass the largest market share and profitability possible, they have no reason to creat prosperity, except when such prosperity coincides with their specific purposes. Governments by contrast have a vested interest in and specific responsibility to create prosperity for all its people.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than U.S. nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese and North Korean Communists.

Given that law abiding citizens routinely accidently fire their guns harming innocents, but no governement in the history of the world has accidently launced a nuclear weapon, I would say the odds are better for the preservation of innocent lives for the chinese to have nuclear weapons than citizen x having a gun.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that there was no art before federal funding.

Given that all the great classical art of Rome, Greece, Egypt, and up through the renissance was funded by public entities, this would seem to be correct.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical documented changes in the earth's climate and more affected by soccer moms driving SUV's.

Given that this is the opinion of the leading scientists who routinely research this issue, I would have to say, yes. I'm no scientist, but I know enough to ask one when I have a question about science.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that gender roles are artificial but being homosexual is natural.

As Gender roles change and adapt as societies need, and sexual preference seems occur quite regularly regardless of the roles of society, this again would seem to be born out by observation.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding.

As AIDS is primarily being spread thoughout the developing world, and the main method of combating that spread is through educational programs funded by the developed world, this again would be correct.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.

This one requires a correction. A teacher should and can teach 4th greaders how to read by and large, and these teachers probably should broach the topic of human sexuality with their students at the appropriate point in their lesson plan. I will compromise with you however and say that sex Ed materials should be written and distributed to students, that way the functionally illiterate ones won't have to rely on their incompotent teacher to educate them.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that hunters don't care about nature, but loony activists who have never been outside of
San Francisco do.

Well, I have said you can't be an envirionmentalist and live in the woods. The very act of going into nature, brining one's comforts supplies, and disturbing the natural system is bad for the natural system. However, I will again compromise. If you agree to hunt using but a spear and the clothes on your back. Take only that which you can carry yourself, and eat all you take, just as our ancestors did in the natural order of the world, I'll say go ahead and hunt to your little hearts content.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it.

Given that self esteem is important to the development of a well balanced personality and thusly a well functioning society, one could make just such an argument. Everyone has something they can and should be proud of, so why limit the areas of acheivment exclusivly to those areas that provide the least usefull tools for survival in the modern world?

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe the NRA is bad because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good because it supports certain parts of the Constitution.

Actually, the ACLU supports all parts of the constitution, Including the second ammendment, which reads IIRC "As a well organized millitia is necessary for the common defense the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." The obvious points with regards to this is that the millitia is the purpose of this ammendment, not duck hunting, or protection of personal property. The second point is that the millitia is to be well run and organized, which means it is not inteneded to protect a lone person with a stock pile of explosives. The Supreame Court has routinely found that these additional clauses to the second ammendment grant the power to congress to require licensing and limitations on personal fire arms purcases. If congress shoudl ever attempt to limit the powers of various states to form and regulate their own militias (Read National Guards) you can rest assured the ACLU will rise to the occasion. As of this time however congress has taken no such action in violation of these powers.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high.

As taxes benefit the whole of society, and ATM fees are largely fees paid to corporations for our use of a service that saves them considerable money on tellers, yes, this one is correct. Do you think ATM fees are too low? I am sure you can work out a system with your bank to pay them additional monies for the services they give you.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than
Thomas Jefferson, Gen. Robert E. Lee, Thomas Edison, and Alexander Graham Bell.

Again this requires a correction, the two persons listed who were infact highly influential leaders in their movements are at least as important the equivilent leaders of other organizations who changed the way our society is structured. They are likely more important historicly than one inventor or another, regardless of the importance of the invention. It is the invention that changed society not the man.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides are not.

Given that ocasionally standardized tests are infact culturally biased, and ocassionally culturually biased so as to ensure a prefered result, it is necessary at times that those who have suffered at the hands of such biases be protected by our society as a whole against the tyranny of small minded individuals.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that Hillary Clinton doesn't condone Bill's sexual predations.

When was Bill found guilty of being a sex offender or is labeling him a sexual predator simply hyperbolic? Given that Ms. Clinton has not announced that she is infact a swinger and is fine with Mr. Clinton's trysts, I would have to presume that she does not infact condone them.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.

Well, given the inherent corruption of the systems where it was tried, it is a fair analysis to say that these attempts probably were flawed to begin with. However, Nations like Canada, Austrailia, and the EU which have strong socialistic tendencies seem to be doing o.k. As is China, to whom we owe several billion to finance our capitalist system.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a perjurer and a sex offender belonged in the White House.

Again, I am not sure when Mr. Clinton was convicted of a sex offense. I don't recall any such charges ever being brought. Likewise, I am unaware of a conservative ever telling the truth.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites, and bestiality should be constitutionally protected, and manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal.

Again, a correction, Manger scenes on public lands can be construed as an unlawful endorsement of a state religion, which is barred by the constitution (you know the thing that contains the second amendment). If you are going to defend the second amendment you have to defend all the clauses of the constitution, that's what being a strict constructionist is all about.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that the illegal Democratic Party funding by the Chinese government and introduced to American politics by the Clinton 's is somehow in the best interests of the United States .

Again, who is currently serving jail time over the lobbying of the Chinese government in the United States? Given that we have yet to be overrun by communists, and infact the Chinese seem to becoming more and more capitalist, I'd have to say such an opening of relations was in our best interest. I just hope they don't call in their markers any time soon.

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that it's okay to give federal workers Christmas Day off but it's not okay to say "Merry Christmas."

It is o.k. to give unionized workers any day off they can negotiate. If many wish to have the 25th of December off, good for them. As to saying Merry Christmas, it is not that it is wrong, it is just rude to presume someone shares the same religious opinions as you. How would you feel if the clerk at your local grocery store insisted that you have a happy Ramadan, Sukkot, Dwalli, or Hitler's Birthday?

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast right wing conspiracy.

My momma always told me, when someone takes the time out of their busy day to tell you something, ask yourself, why is this man telling me this. I have to presume it is to your advantage in someway that I know the qualities of a "good liberal" likewise, I must presume that you are not liberal as many of your qualifications are wrong or misapplied. I must then wonder, if you are in fact working with some one, and report your name back to my masters in Moscow...opps...sorry I forgot we moved the head quarters to Provance.

[BringTheNoise]

Originally Posted by Bryan With A 'Y'

They forgot the most important one!

You have to be made of straw. Preferably with a match attached.

Of course, mine's kind of hard to light - keeps getting soaked by my bleeding heart, and all.

That's why to be a GREAT liberal, you need to replace your blood with gasoline!

To the people in my office, that sounds about right.

[Open Mike Night]

Originally Posted by BringTheNoise

That's why to be a GREAT liberal, you need to replace your blood with gasoline!

NO BLOOD FOR OIL!!

[RainyDaze]

Originally Posted by BringTheNoise

That's why to be a GREAT liberal, you need to replace your blood with gasoline!

Originally Posted by Open Mike Night

NO BLOOD FOR OIL!!

YOMANK. Why, oh why, did I not see that come back myself!

[rogue74656]

How to be a good conservative:

You must be against ALL abortions. To kill an innocent life (fetus) even to save the mother's life, is still violation of "Thou shalt not kill"

You have to believe that businesses will do what is best for society if left to their own devices and government regulations only increase the cost of doing business, harming the economy.

You must believe that Lowering taxes will increase revenue.

You must believe that (For the government, not businesses) It is better to borrow money and spend rather than to increase the income by passing costs on to the customer.

You have to believe that dissimilar issues can be comparied.

You have to believe that your views are correct and a way needs to be found "around the constitutional problem" preventing the enactment of your personal (religious) beliefs as law. Oh, and anyone that opposes your moralist theocracy is a raving liberal.

You have to believe that there was no art except for biblical representations (without any nudity) worthy of public viewing.

You have to believe that a majority of scientists are godless Darwinist who have a hidden agenda and are therefore misrepresenting the evidence in such a way that it supports their viewpoint.

You have to believe that the biblical sex roles and sexual prohibitions are universal truths that should apply to all.

You have to believe that the AIDS virus is God's punishment for immorality.

You have to believe that children will not experiment or seek out information on sex from other sources until they lose their virginity together on honeymoon in a monogamous heterosexual relationship where sex is conducted in the missionary position with the lights out only for the purpose of procreation.

You have to believe that anyone adovating a postion other than yours is misguided or loony.

You have to believe that hyperbole and citiation of islolated incidents creates an pattern of behavior which can be used to paint your opposition as unreasonable.

You have to believe that those parts of the constitution you believe in (or your interpretation) are right, while those you disagree with can be freely ignored or misinterpreted, despite all evidence to the contrary.

You have to believe businesses will not charge more than is fair and all services are better provided by private enterprises, who will deliver more services at a lower cost.

You have to believe that only rich, white, Christian men were involved in the history of this country and those are the only ones who should be studied.

You have to believe no one would be denied a job, etc. because of race, and if they were, it was simply because they were not as "qualified".

You have to believe that the nation should be concerned with the marital relationship of liberals (because conservatives do not ever cheat on their spouses...adultry is forbidden by The Law)

You have to believe that the only reason plutocracy/theocracy/ hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.

You have to believe that conservatives telling exaggerations and outright lies belong on television and the radio while liberals telling the truth must be attacked for their personal lives or quotes taken out of context.

You must belive in smaller government but be willing to spend millions of dollars to look for dirt from a liberals past. When no criminal acts can be found, it is acceptable to investigate personal behavior and bring charges that would be thrown out of most courts for lack of evidence.

You have to believe that free speech only applies to those things that you believe in and does not apply to those items that offend you (or ar against you religious beliefs)

You have to believe that is acceptable to link unrelated issues or to exaggerate with hyperbole painted as truth to achieve your ends.

You have to believe that the illegal Republican Party funding by Oil/big busness/special interests and companies with whom the official used to work and introduced to American politics by the Bush administration is somehow in the best interests of the United States and that it is acceptable to give lucrative, no-bid contracts to companies for whom an official used to work and still holds stock in.

You have to believe that it's okay to represent a private company's decision as public policy and confuse the issue by linking it to government action.

You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast liberal media conspiracy.

You have to believe that the ends justify the means.

You have to believe that you are chosen by God to your position and any amount of obfusication, misdirection, or outright lying is acceptable in achieving your ends because only you (and those who agree with your views) see the larger picture and know what needs to be done and this is acceptable because you have the country's best interests at heart.

Let's see.. It really just needs a few minor tweaks here and there.

How to Be a Good (moderate) Liberal

You believe that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. You believe in legal safeguards to be absoultely certain that the individuals you execute are in fact guilty of the crimes of which they are accused.

You recognize that any collection of power has the potential to be abused. You remember enough history to know what a 'company town' was. You believe that the government should be accountable to the people and as transperent as feasable. You may or may not know how to sing 'sixteen tons'. You recognize Santa Clara v Southern pacific to be one of the worst SCOTUS decisions of all time and a fine example of the 'judicial activism' that conservatives are always complaining about.

You believe that world anhilation threatened during the cold war was a far greater threat than terrorism.

You believe that art is more than dogs playing poker and fuzzy clown pictures.

You actually understand basic scientific principles. You are willing to consider bad news and make plans to deal with it rather than sticking your head in the sand and hoping it goes away.

You believe that people should be able to live their lives as they choose as long as they don't harm others (OK, that's closer to libertarian. But it's liberal libertarian in this case).

You have to believe that public education campaigns are vastly superior to having a massive aids epidemic like there is in many parts of Africa. You realize that AIDS is a massive epidemic in much of Africa, infecting as many as 1 in 3 people and very much a 'straight' disease.

You do have your doubts about the past educational system given the number of conservatives who cannot construct a coherent arguement. You recognize that many fourth graders read and write at a level superior to the members of freeperville. You would rather have children experience puberty knowledgeable about what is going on in their bodies than experience panic and confusion over the changes in their bodies.

You reach out to moderate conservatives who realize that polluted streams make for sickly deer and fewer geese. You share a laugh about the poor individuals who think they need an assult rifle with armor piercing shells to bag a buck.

You have to believe that merit is more important than who your parents happened to be.

You beleive the NRA is over the top when they claim a need for military hardware and armor piercing bullets. You cringe at some of the people the ACLU defend, but recognize that yelling vulgarities doesn't kill people no matter how many times Phelps and his ilk scream them.

You beleive that government exists to provide for the common good. You beleive that there should be oversight in spending money responsibly. You believe that it should be illegal for banks to collude to fix prices. You may like credit unions.

You don't believe there is some sort of limit on the number of Americans who can be great Americans, nor that greatness is limited to a single race, gender, or anything else.

You recognize that standardized tests are a really lousy indicator of knowledge, and beleive that discrimination in employment is wrong.

You don't obsess about Hillary Clinton and look forward to a number of highly qualified candidates competing in the primary.

You have to believe that the Marshal plan and the G.I Bill were greatly successful.

You believe that individuals who commit treason by intentionally compremising US counterterrorism operations worldwide belong in jail. You would rather not have Bush in the whitehouse anymore and believe that deciving the American people about international threats then hiding behind technicallities over perjury is still a very bad thing.

You believe that people should have the right to express themselves, whether by marching in a parade or putting a religious display out on their front lawn.

You are amazed that the writer of this original crap actually managed to get the name 'Democratic" right. You don't buy into international conspiracy theories - left or right, though you have to chuckle at the comment that Bush couldn't have done a worse job had he actually been a manchurian candidate.

You beleive that it is ok to give employees Christmas off, and for individuals to wish each other any greeting they want, but don't think that any particular set of religious beliefs should be force onto people.

You wonder how conservatives manage to get anywhere if their 'conspiracies' are this poorly thought out.

[BluesScale]

Thank you, Citizen James. Next time I need to define my political position, I need only point them to your post.

BluesScale

[BringTheNoise]

Two further tweaks for me:

Originally Posted by Citizen James

You believe that abortion should be safe, legal, and entirely the woman's decision. You believe that the death penalty is never justified.

How to be a good chain letter author:

--Take every stereotype for a group, expand it to the extreme, and list it out

--Insist that every single person from said group believes every single one of these things 100% of the time with no exceptions and a 0% margin of error

--Share your profound insight with everyone in your e-mail address book, all of whom will certainly appreciate and agree with the depth of what you have written--and anyone who doesn't agree doesn't deserve to be your friend in the first place and is most likely in cahoots with the terrorists

--Repeat ad nauseam

[Ben_Who]

You know, I'm wrong to let this list get to me; if you ask a conservative's opinion of a liberal, you'll never hear the words "but I respect his opinions" used. (Wasn't it Molly Ivins who said "Asking Rush Limbaugh to define 'Liberal' is like asking Hitler to define 'Jew'?) And, Lord knows, there's a "how to be a good Conservative" list floating around out there somewhere. (I actually found one in a Google search, but it's not the one I was looking for, so I won't cite it.)

Anyone can wrench someone's opinions out of context, and I don't really have much in the way of response to this except "That's not what that means and you know it," but I've sometimes debated conservatives on the basis of the consequences of their beliefs and gotten startling results. ("Wait a minute--are you saying that it's actually possible for corporations to abuse their power for personal gain at the expense of employees and consumers?")

In connection, I found a book in a bookstore called "Conservative Comebacks to Liberal Lies," and, being an idiot, I opened it up and had a look. I can't say I was all THAT impressed by what I read; most of the so-called "responses" seemed to exist primarily to make conservatives feel better rather than attempt to convince liberals of the Error of their Ways. I think that most diatribes like this one are mostly made to do that rather than challenge anyone's prejudices or make them question their affiliation.

I have an intelligent, informed response for every single one of the assertions in the OP. But there's just no point in my expressing any of them.

Love, Who?

[PatYoung]

Originally Posted by Squishy0405

**This may actually belong in humor but since this isn't my forte I posted it here...

How to Be a Good Liberal


You have to believe that the illegal Democratic Party funding by the Chinese government and introduced to American politics by the Clinton 's

Apparently to be a good Conservativer you have to misplace the apostrophe (and know the proper use of the word FAGGOT).

[Cactus Wren]

Addition to the "How to be a good conservative" list:

You have to find the phrase "Happy Holidays" deeply offensive, bordering on a personal attack on your religious beliefs.