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  #1  
Old 28 February 2007, 01:09 PM
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Spam & Cookies-mmm Spam & Cookies-mmm is offline
 
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Icon102 Moby Air - It's Not a Blimp!

Subject: How is this one.!!

PRETTY WILD LOOKING, ISN'T IT?






Even though the Aeroscraft dwarfs the largest commercial airliners, it requires less net space on the ground than any plane because it doesn't need a runway. The airship takes off and lands like a helicopter: straight up and down.

This is not a Blimp! . It's a sort of flying Queen Mary 2 that could change the way you think about air travel. It's the Aeroscraft, and when it's completed, it will ferry pampered passengers across continents and oceans as they stroll leisurely about the one-acre cabin or relax in their well-appointed staterooms.
Unlike its dirigible ancestors, the Aeroscraft is not lighter than air. Its 14 million cubic feet of helium hoist only two-thirds of the craft's weight. The rigid and surprisingly aerodynamic body-driven by huge rearward propellers generates enough additional lift to keep the behemoth and its 400-ton payload aloft while cruising. During takeoff and landing, six turbofan jet engines push the ship up or ease its descent.






This two-football-fields-long concept airship is the brainchild of Igor Pasternak, whose privately funded California firm, Worldwide Aeros Corporation, is in the early stages of developing a prototype and expects to have one completed by 2010. Pasternak says several cruise ship companies have expressed interest in the project, and for good reason: The craft would have a range of several thousand miles and, with an estimated top speed of 174 mph, could traverse the continental US in about 18 hours. During the flight, passengers would peer at national landmarks just 8,000 feet below or, if they weren't captivated by the view, the cavernous interior would easily accommodate such amenities as luxury staterooms, restaurants, even a casino.
To minimize noise, the aft-mounted propellers will be electric, powered by a renewable source such as hydrogen fuel cells. A sophisticated buoyancy-management system will serve the same purpose as trim on an airplane, allowing for precise adjustments in flight dynamics to compensate for outside conditions and passenger movement. The automated system will draw outside air into compartments throughout the ship and compress it to manage onboard weight.



On a pressurized plane, windows like these would explode outward. The Aeroscraft does not fly high enough to need pressurization.

The company envisions a cargo-carrying version that could deliver a store's worth of merchandise from a centralized distribution center straight to a Wal-Mart parking lot or, because the helium-filled craft will float, a year's worth of supplies to an offshore oil rig. "You can land on the snow, you can land on the water," Pasternak says. "It's a new vision of what can be done in the air."

Aeroscraft
Purpose: Long-range travel for passengers who! are more concerned with the journey than the destination.
Dimensions (feet): 165 h x 244 w x 647 l
Max Speed: 174 mph
Range: 6,000 miles
Capacity: 250 passengers
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  #2  
Old 28 February 2007, 02:06 PM
Delta-V
 
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Sounds interesting, but not very practical. At 8,000ft, it's still below the weather, limiting it's usefulness. Plus, I think it would be a liability on the ground in high winds. It's got such an enormous sail area that it'd be difficult to tie down strong enough to keep it from blowing across the airport.
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  #3  
Old 28 February 2007, 02:36 PM
Doug4.7
 
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Glasses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta-V View Post
Sounds interesting, but not very practical. At 8,000ft, it's still below the weather, limiting it's usefulness. Plus, I think it would be a liability on the ground in high winds. It's got such an enormous sail area that it'd be difficult to tie down strong enough to keep it from blowing across the airport.
I was thinking about that. Try to land one in Dallas on a day with 20-30 mph gusty winds. Try to keep it in one piece while a thunderstorm rages around it. Trying to fly BELOW the weather scares me.

Oh the humanity!
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  #4  
Old 28 February 2007, 03:32 PM
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Floater Floater is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spam & Cookies-mmm View Post
Subject: How is this one.!!
This is not a Blimp!
Of course it's not. It's quite obviously a rigid airship, although I don't think there is anything stopping you from making a blimp that size.
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  #5  
Old 28 February 2007, 03:53 PM
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I'm reminded of the Pan American Clippers, which were the late 1930s/early 1940s version of a flying cruise ship. They disappeared after the war because long runways had been built during WWII, and because people were more interested in air travel for speed than luxury. Are they really going to get enough business to make this a viable option? Cruise ships already face occupancy issues.

Toad"I'll stay with ships on water, thank you"Magnet
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  #6  
Old 28 February 2007, 04:18 PM
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Jay Temple Jay Temple is offline
 
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Anyone else think this guy just bought his own aircraft?
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  #7  
Old 01 March 2007, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Temple View Post
Anyone else think this guy just bought his own aircraft?
:Raises hand:
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  #8  
Old 01 March 2007, 02:34 PM
Troberg Troberg is offline
 
 
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This is wrong for so many reasons.

Quote:
Its 14 million cubic feet of helium hoist only two-thirds of the craft's weight. The rigid and surprisingly aerodynamic body-driven by huge rearward propellers generates enough additional lift to keep the behemoth and its 400-ton payload aloft while cruising. During takeoff and landing, six turbofan jet engines push the ship up or ease its descent.
400 ton payload, plus the weight of the craft. One third of that lifted by six turbofan jets, straight up? Will not happen.

Without any wings, what little speed it has will generate very little lift (even assumed that the body shape is designed to generate some lift). In other words, even if it could take off, it would be insanely fuel inefficient.

Quote:
the cavernous interior would easily accommodate such amenities as luxury staterooms, restaurants, even a casino.
Cavernous interior? Only if the passengers can breathe helium. There need to be huge helium tanks, which will fill up every spare bit of available space.

Besides, in the end, the classic formula "cram as many people inside as possible" will rule supreme here, just as it has always done. The As-380 was marketed as capable of having showers, gyms, beds, bars and other luxuries. What do the airlines which have ordered them do? Cram them full of seats, because that's where the money is.

Quote:
On a pressurized plane, windows like these would explode outward. The Aeroscraft does not fly high enough to need pressurization.
Weather, as someone pointed out, is a problem at lower altitude. A large wind catcher like this is especially vulnerable.

Quote:
The company envisions a cargo-carrying version that could deliver a store's worth of merchandise from a centralized distribution center straight to a Wal-Mart parking lot or
Yeah, it's likely that they'll be allowed to land there...

There is a reason we have airports, and it's not just about runways.

Quote:
the helium-filled craft will float, a year's worth of supplies to an offshore oil rig. "You can land on the snow, you can land on the water," Pasternak says.
How heavy will it have to be if it is to survive floating in a storm without breaking up? Probably too heavy to fly. And I can't see why a ship couldn't do the same job, probably much cheaper.

Nope, won't work, except as a photoshop mockup.
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  #9  
Old 02 March 2007, 04:33 AM
PrometheusX303
 
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I believe this may be the origin.
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  #10  
Old 02 March 2007, 11:34 AM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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Read This!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troberg View Post
400 ton payload, plus the weight of the craft. One third of that lifted by six turbofan jets, straight up? Will not happen.

Without any wings, what little speed it has will generate very little lift (even assumed that the body shape is designed to generate some lift). In other words, even if it could take off, it would be insanely fuel inefficient.
It does have wings.

The article doesn't claim the craft would be lifted straight up by six turbofan jets. It says they would assist in takeoff and landing. There is a considerable amount of ground effect to consider. All it has to do is clear the ground enough to start moving forward or, in the case of landing, ease the craft to the ground after it has come to a stop. Also, the size of those turbofan jets suggests to me that they aren't "off the shelf".

I agree that the numbers and the design shown are suspicious but I don't think the idea itself is so far-fetched.
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  #11  
Old 02 March 2007, 01:52 PM
Troberg Troberg is offline
 
 
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Quote:
It does have wings.
Yep, but they are tiny, especially considered the low speed. I have a feeling they are more for control than for lift, much like the barrel wings like Stipa Caproni.

Penguins also have tiny wings, that doesn't make them fly.

Quote:
The article doesn't claim the craft would be lifted straight up by six turbofan jets. It says they would assist in takeoff and landing. There is a considerable amount of ground effect to consider. All it has to do is clear the ground enough to start moving forward or, in the case of landing, ease the craft to the ground after it has come to a stop. Also, the size of those turbofan jets suggests to me that they aren't "off the shelf".
There is not much ground effect in a vertical takeoff. Besides, the ground effect proper only goes to an altitude of about the chord of the wing (or the diameter of the rotor for a helicopter). And that altitude is measured at the wing or the rotor, not the bottom of the craft.

Perhaps the engines are not off the shelf, but there is a limit on how big they can get without getting out of hand, especially when it comes to static thrust, which is what we are talking about here. Without ram pressure, they just can't suck enough air. Also, a bigger engine means larger turbines and fans, which means higher peripheral speed, higher centrufigal force and at once more difficult to make a rigid construction and higher demands for rigidity.

To get an idea of how much air such an engine need, each engine of the As-380 sucks more air than what would be generated if the entire population of Belgium farted continously.

Don't forget that these engines need fuel. Fuel must be carried. Fuel for such huge engines is heavy. That means more structure, which is also heavy. This means more helium, and you soone end up in a downward spiral of increasing weight.

I might believe it if they had enough helium to give it neutral bouyancy, but even so, I strongly doubt the feasability of a cavernous luxury cruise interior. I would be very surprised if lighter than air aircraft made a big commersial comeback.
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  #12  
Old 02 March 2007, 08:26 PM
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Le Chevalier Blanc Le Chevalier Blanc is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troberg View Post
each engine of the As-380 sucks more air than what would be generated if the entire population of Belgium farted continously.
I'd ask you to site a source where that second statistic has been measured, but I'm laughing too hard to do so.
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  #13  
Old 02 March 2007, 09:59 PM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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Those are good points, Troberg.
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  #14  
Old 03 March 2007, 02:29 AM
Wesman
 
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Not to mention that is a terrible, terrible photoshop, even by my standards.

Wesman
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  #15  
Old 03 March 2007, 05:05 AM
Troberg Troberg is offline
 
 
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Come to think about it, they should put the cockpit in a beak at the front, paint it like a penguin and use it as PR for Linux...

Quote:
I'd ask you to site a source where that second statistic has been measured, but I'm laughing too hard to do so.
I don't know where they got the number from, but I heard it in a TV documentary about the As-380. Given the magnificient cheese culture of Belgium, I think you can imagine the scale of this.
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