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  #101  
Old 05 May 2009, 07:08 AM
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No The autism/vaccine myth

As this newspaper recently noted, an increasing number of parents are opting out of vaccinating their children. Up to now, they have tended to be affluent families. But I fear we are starting to see a new contagion, a terrible idea spreading.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,4461231.story
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  #102  
Old 05 May 2009, 11:37 AM
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Toddler brain difference linked to autism

I don't know if vaccines could cause this.

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(CNN) -- The size of a specific part of the brain may help experts pinpoint when autism could first develop, University of North Carolina researchers report.
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  #103  
Old 05 May 2009, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SoToasty View Post
Toddler brain difference linked to autism

I don't know if vaccines could cause this.
I saw that on the news earlier, it would be interesting to see the data on how many of the children in the study recieved vaccinations vs those who did not, and if there was a correlational difference in amygdala size. I personally hold little value in the vaccines cause autism argument, and with research like this it could make a big difference in straightening things out.
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  #104  
Old 05 May 2009, 07:18 PM
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I don't see how vaccines could cause this is the diseases themselves don't cause this.
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  #105  
Old 05 May 2009, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
I don't see how vaccines could cause this is the diseases themselves don't cause this.
Well, you're clearly not thinking like a crackpot.
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  #106  
Old 28 January 2010, 03:54 PM
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Default MMR doctor 'failed to act in interests of children'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...l-children-gmc

Dr Andrew Wakefield, the expert at the centre of the MMR controversy, "failed in his duties as a responsible consultant" and showed a "callous disregard" for the suffering of children involved in his research, the General Medical Council (GMC) has ruled.
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  #107  
Old 28 January 2010, 07:00 PM
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Read This!

There goes Big Pharma suppressing the truth tellers again!
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  #108  
Old 29 January 2010, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SoToasty View Post
Toddler brain difference linked to autism

I don't know if vaccines could cause this.
That is a correlation rather than causation.
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  #109  
Old 29 January 2010, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Xia View Post
That is a correlation rather than causation.
Ignoring the spurious relationship to vaccines...

Looking at the article, even if the size of the amygdala is correlated with autism, and even assuming that there is a causative relationship, the direction of the causation is unclear. The increased size of the amygdala might lead to autism or autism might lead to the increased size.
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  #110  
Old 29 January 2010, 09:53 PM
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Or does whatever it is that causes autism, also happen to cause an increase in the size of the amygdala? For example, sore throats don't cause fevers, and fevers don't cause sore throats, but strep-A bacteria can cause both at the same time.
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  #111  
Old 01 February 2010, 11:28 PM
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Tsk, Tsk Doctor Who Tied Vaccine to Autism Ruled Unethical

In 1998, Andrew Wakefield, a gastroenterologist at London's Royal Free Hospital, published a study in the prestigious medical journal Lancet that linked the triple Measles, Mumps and Rubella (MMR) vaccine with autism and bowel disorders in children. The study - and Wakefield's subsequent public statements that parents should refuse the vaccines - sparked a public health panic that led vaccination rates in Britain to plunge.

Wakefield's study has since been discredited, and the MMR vaccine deemed to be safe. But now medical authorities in the U.K. have also ruled that the manner in which Wakefield carried out his research was unethical.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2010020...08599195765600
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  #112  
Old 02 February 2010, 07:44 PM
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Reading Medical journal retracts study linking autism to vaccine

The medical journal The Lancet has retracted a controversial 1998 paper that linked the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine to autism.

The study subsequently had been discredited, and the lead author, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, was found to have acted unethically in conducting the research.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/02...ism/index.html
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  #113  
Old 02 February 2010, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
Or does whatever it is that causes autism, also happen to cause an increase in the size of the amygdala? For example, sore throats don't cause fevers, and fevers don't cause sore throats, but strep-A bacteria can cause both at the same time.
There probably isn't one "cause" of autism and autism itself is probably several different disorders with related characteristics.

Sister "i read too much" Ray
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  #114  
Old 03 February 2010, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RivkahChaya
Or does whatever it is that causes autism, also happen to cause an increase in the size of the amygdala? For example, sore throats don't cause fevers, and fevers don't cause sore throats, but strep-A bacteria can cause both at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Ray View Post
There probably isn't one "cause" of autism and autism itself is probably several different disorders with related characteristics.

Sister "i read too much" Ray
Oh, I agree. And lots of other things besides the strep-A bacterium can cause sore throats and fever, but I think my point stands. Say, a recessive gene trait causes one particular type of autism, and also increases the size of the amygdala, but that doesn't necessarily mean that brain functions in the amygdala are responsible for the traits we see in autism.

As a matter of fact, we can even safely say that a couple of things do cause autistic behavior, but one, maternal rubella, doesn't always cause it, and can cause other things, and another, trisomy 3, can cause so many problems, sometimes so many together, including deafness, blindness and mental retardation, that few children who have it even carry an autism diagnosis, even when they clearly have autistic traits, because they will be in "MHHI" (multiply handicapped hearing-impaired) programs, and not programs for non-sensory impaired autistic kids.

Those two causes have been known for a while, but a fetus with trisomy 3 that is born live and close to full term is rare already, and even then, many die within a few days, and maternal rubella has nearly been eliminated by vaccination, so both those causes together account for less than .1% of autism cases. Actually, probably far less than that, but I don't have numbers in front of me.

I may not be around to collect, but I would bet money that when all the research is in, a good 75% of autism cases will be caused by genetics alone.
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  #115  
Old 03 February 2010, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
As a matter of fact, we can even safely say that a couple of things do cause autistic behavior, but one, maternal rubella, doesn't always cause it, and can cause other things, and another, trisomy 3, can cause so many problems, sometimes so many together, including deafness, blindness and mental retardation, that few children who have it even carry an autism diagnosis, even when they clearly have autistic traits, because they will be in "MHHI" (multiply handicapped hearing-impaired) programs, and not programs for non-sensory impaired autistic kids.
Also Angelman's syndrome, Rett syndrome, and Fragile X syndrome are genetic and associated with autism.

Sister "just a few" Ray
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  #116  
Old 03 February 2010, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Sister Ray View Post
Also Angelman's syndrome, Rett syndrome, and Fragile X syndrome are genetic and associated with autism.

Sister "just a few" Ray
Oh yeah, Fragile X, absolutely. I think Rett is specifically not autism, mainly because it is degenerative, although that is recent-- it was once considered a type of autism.

Angelman's syndrome is very interesting. It has two gene markers, one from the mother, and one from the father, call them Ma, and Fb. If a child has the exact same two faulty genes, but the inheritance pattern is reversed, Fa, Mb, then the child has Prader-Willi syndrome.
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  #117  
Old 03 February 2010, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
Angelman's syndrome is very interesting. It has two gene markers, one from the mother, and one from the father, call them Ma, and Fb. If a child has the exact same two faulty genes, but the inheritance pattern is reversed, Fa, Mb, then the child has Prader-Willi syndrome.
Yes. There is speculation that the chromosome set (not genes per se) is related to food and water intake and may be responsible for some cases of binge eating. (And it's a paternal disomy condition, meaning that Angelman's syndrome results from two chromosomes from the father and none from the mother; Prader-Willi is a maternal disomy condition.)

Sister "genetics is fun!" Ray
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  #118  
Old 05 February 2010, 08:39 PM
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Icon27 The damage of the anti-vaccination movement

The doctor who launched the modern anti-vaccine movement acted "dishonestly and irresponsibly," Britain's General Medical Council has ruled. But fear not. Dr. Andrew Wakefield is still a hero to his many acolytes. And others, with curious credentials, fight on to terrify parents into not getting their children inoculated.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,3589719.story
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  #119  
Old 06 February 2010, 07:46 PM
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I'd like to know about some specific stories of people harmed by diseases that had been reduced in prevalence by vaccines.

An article Snopes linked above ( http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may...ion/oe-coller3 ) says:

Quote:
[In 2008] there were 1,348 cases of measles and two deaths in England and Wales (compared with just 56 cases in 1998) according to the London Sunday Times.
Surely some of those 1,292 extra measles cases in 2008, and definitely the two deaths, make a far more heart-wrenching story than the spurious stories of people who think their children's maladies were caused by immunizations.

That would make a good news article.
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  #120  
Old 06 February 2010, 08:11 PM
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I personally know a woman, who is now in her 20s, who began having what were then called grand mal seizures after running a high fever after her first DPT shot.

Now, she was not a perfectly normal child. She had a birth injury, and her doctors suspected she had had a small cerebral stroke at birth. They also suspected that she had absence seizures, and her EEGs bore that out, but she had not yet had a tonic-clonic seizure.

After having several of these T-C seizures in rapid succession, and needing Valium in the hospital, and several days hospitalization as an infant, she went home on phenobarbital, but still continued to have T-C seizures at a rate of about one a week. She now has movement and speech disorders, with some intellectual impairment, that looks a lot like shaken baby syndrome, although I know her parents, and I don't think she was ever abused. People who had T-C seizures as infants often have movement disorders, because they have brain damage from the seizures.

Now, it is possible that all her problems are solely from the stroke, or that the T-C seizures would have started anyway, because of the stroke. However, if they had started when she was older, perhaps she would have had less brain damage.

Since she was known not to have a normal EEG, it might have been wise to postpone her vaccines, since fevers are a common reaction, and babies sometimes have febrile seizures, with babies who are known to have abnormal EEGs already being even more vulnerable. I don't know why they were not. Maybe she was in daycare. I did not work with her until she was 13, so I don't know all the details.

Her parents did get a settlement from the vaccine injury fund.

So, a clear case of injury from a vaccine, but in a person who might have been fairly disabled anyway (not that that makes it OK, but my point is that the vaccine is a contributing factor, not the entire cause), and in an unusual confluence of circumstances.

Also, any of the diseases that the DPT (now DaPT) shot protects against can cause severe disabilities in people who survive them. Statistically, what happened to the woman I know is literally 1 in about 10 million, while catching one of those diseases before the vaccines was about 1 in 50.
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