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  #1  
Old 24 September 2008, 04:39 PM
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Reading Is that in the Bible?

Comment: Is it true that "it says in the Bible that God helps those who
help themselves" or is this simply a traditional notion passed down
perhaps by the Puritans?
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  #2  
Old 24 September 2008, 04:44 PM
Nick Theodorakis Nick Theodorakis is offline
 
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It was passed on by Benjamin Franklin; I doubt anyone would consider him a Puritan. But it is true that it's not in the Bible.

Nick
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  #3  
Old 24 September 2008, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Theodorakis View Post
It was passed on by Benjamin Franklin; I doubt anyone would consider him a Puritan. But it is true that it's not in the Bible.
To add a little more to this from http://www.gotquestions.org/God-help-themselves.html

Quote:
"God helps those who help themselves" is probably the most often quoted phrase that is not found in the Bible. This is actually a quote from Ben Franklin and it appeared in Poor Richard's Almanac in 1757. In fact the Bible teaches the opposite. God helps the helpless! Isaiah 25:4 declares, "For You have been a defense for the helpless, a defense for the needy in his distress, a refuge from the storm, a shade from the heat..." Romans 5:6 tells us, "For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly."
And while I am aware that the Bible can be interpreted and twisted into saying almost anything one wants to hear at the moment, the quote is still wrong (Biblically speaking) depending on which parts you are reading and what you consider to be "helping themselves". Here are two more verses that seem to contradict the notion (again possibly open to interpretation):

Jeremiah 17:5 (KJV) - Thus saith the LORD; Cursed [be] the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

and

Proverbs 28:26 (KJV)- He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.

But I am not a theologian nor a Bible scholar, so I'll just throw that out there.
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  #4  
Old 24 September 2008, 05:22 PM
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It's all in the Bible, people! Just not all together, and not necessarily in that order.
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Old 24 September 2008, 05:37 PM
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There is also, "Cleanliness is next to godliness", which is also not in the Bible.
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Old 24 September 2008, 06:12 PM
Gayle Gayle is offline
 
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I remember someone asking what book of the bible "God is in his heaven; all is right with the world" was in. Some quick wit said "First Pippa"
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Old 24 September 2008, 11:40 PM
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How about: "For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance." (the yang that follows is "Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.")

Doesn't 'God help the helpless!' because they can't help themselves? If they could help themselves they wouldn't be 'helpless'.
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Old 25 September 2008, 12:44 AM
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The quotation, "God is in His Heaven. All is right with the world," has been attributed to 19th century English poet Robert Browning. But I'm not sure he created those statements, though.


Barb Rainey
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Old 25 September 2008, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbrainey View Post
The quotation, "God is in His Heaven. All is right with the world," has been attributed to 19th century English poet Robert Browning. But I'm not sure he created those statements, though.


Barb Rainey
Really? I thought it was just Neon Genesis Evangelion that used it. Except it was "God is in His Heaven.All,s right with the world."
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Old 25 September 2008, 01:56 PM
Gayle Gayle is offline
 
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Pippa Passes, y'all
Young, all lay in dispute; I shall know, being old.
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  #11  
Old 25 September 2008, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoitoider View Post
How about: "For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance." (the yang that follows is "Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.")

Actually this IS, in fact, in the Bible:

"...For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." - Luke 12:48

And,

"For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath." - Matthew 25:29

Of course, one needs to take these in the context of the passage.
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  #12  
Old 26 September 2008, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKHB View Post
...the quote is still wrong (Biblically speaking)...
Wrong, or a joke? Ol' Ben may have been commenting on the added effectiveness of miracles when the devout do God's work for Him.
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  #13  
Old 26 September 2008, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle View Post
Pippa Passes, y'all
Young, all lay in dispute; I shall know, being old.
That's the same poem in which he goes on about nuns' twats, isn't it? As far as I remember, he rhymes it with "bats". Of course, he did think "****" meant "wimple" and nobody liked to correct him...

(eta) Here we are, Pippa Passes: Part 1

Quote:
The year's at the spring
And day's at the morn;
Morning's at seven;
The hill-side's dew-pearled;
The lark's on the wing;
The snail's on the thorn:
God's in his heaven—
All's right with the world!
And Part IV

Quote:
Sing to the bats’ sleek sisterhoods
Full complines with gallantry:
Then, owls and bats, cowls and twats,
Monks and nuns, in a cloister’s moods,
Adjourn to the oak-stump pantry!

Last edited by Richard W; 26 September 2008 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 26 September 2008, 02:10 AM
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This quote [God helps those who help themselves.] is often credited to Euripides (famous Greek tailor of the shop "Euripides - Eumendes" - yuk yuk yuk), who wrote similar things in various plays .
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Old 26 September 2008, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbrainey View Post
The quotation, "God is in His Heaven. All is right with the world," has been attributed to 19th century English poet Robert Browning.


Barb Rainey
Which makes me think of Jacques Prévert's "Notre Père qui êtes aux Cieux":


Our Father in Heaven
Stay up there
And we shall stay on Earth
Which sometimes is so pretty
With its mysteries of New York
And its mysteries of Paris
As mysterious as the Trinity’s
Its little Ourq canal
Its Great Wall of China
Its river of Morlaix
Its candies from Cambrai
Its Pacific Ocean
And the two ponds at the Tuileries
With its nice guys and bad boys
With all the World’s marvels
That are here
Simply here on Earth
Free for everyone to see
Scattered all over
Themselves amazed to be such marvels
Too shy to admit
Like a pretty naked girl afraid of showing herself
With all the world’s dreadful disasters
Which are plenty
With their legionaries
Their torturers
With the Masters of the World
The Masters with their priests their traitors and
Their mercenaries
With the seasons
With the years
With the pretty girls and old farts
With the straw of misery rotting away
Among the cannons’ steel


(my own translation)
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  #16  
Old 26 September 2008, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondi View Post
Actually this IS, in fact, in the Bible:

"...For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." - Luke 12:48

And,

"For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath." - Matthew 25:29
I know -I'm saying "Whoever has will be given more" (Mark 4:25) means the same thing as "God helps those who help themselves."
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  #17  
Old 26 September 2008, 02:36 PM
Gayle Gayle is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
That's the same poem in which he goes on about nuns' twats, isn't it? As far as I remember, he rhymes it with "bats". Of course, he did think "****" meant "wimple" and nobody liked to correct him...

(eta) Here we are, Pippa Passes: Part 1



And Part IV
My alma mater has a huge (if not the largest) collection of Browning. I found it amusing to sit in the basement of the Browning Library beneath all that marble and Italianate furniture and snicker that the man didn’t have a single editor to tell him what a **** was.
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  #18  
Old 26 September 2008, 06:42 PM
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Richard W Richard W is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle View Post
I found it amusing to sit in the basement of the Browning Library beneath all that marble and Italianate furniture and snicker that the man didn’t have a single editor to tell him what a **** was.
Cassell's Dictionary of Slang lists the phrase "tighter than a nun's ****" (although it's listed as 20th C), so I'm guessing he'd heard a variant on that and drawn the wrong conclusion. I mean, those wimples don't look very comfortable...
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  #19  
Old 26 September 2008, 07:10 PM
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From the Online Etymology Dictionary:
Quote:
****
1656, of unknown origin. A general term of abuse since 1920s.
The T-word occupies a special niche in literary history, however, thanks to a horrible mistake by Robert Browning, who included it in 'Pippa Passes' (1841) without knowing its true meaning. 'The owls and bats,/Cowls and twats,/Monks and nuns,/In a cloister's moods.' Poor Robert! He had been misled into thinking the word meant 'hat' by its appearance in 'Vanity of Vanities,' a poem of 1660, containing the treacherous lines: 'They'd talk't of his having a Cardinalls Hat,/They'd send him as soon an Old Nuns ****.' (There is a lesson here about not using words unless one is very sure of their meaning.) [Hugh Rawson, "Wicked Words," 1989]
ETA: And here, apparently,is the poem that steered Browning wrong. (Such scholarship in the name of twats! )

Last edited by musicgeek; 26 September 2008 at 07:16 PM.
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  #20  
Old 26 September 2008, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
1656, of unknown origin.
Cassell's suggests it may be related to twitchel, a dialect word for an alleyway or passage. Early variants of **** were twatchel, twatchil and twatchyll. (And the word for an alleyway where I grew up was "twitten".)
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