Vauxhall = station?

[Tarquin Farquart]

I've recently been re-introduced to a rumour I've heard before: that the Russian word for station "vacsal" is derived from Vauxhall station, London.

Supposedly the first station an important Russian visited was Vauxhall so he used the word.

Wikipedia says different though.

There are competing theories as to why the Russian word for a major railway station is вокза́л (vokzal), which coincides with the canonical 19th century transliteration of "Vauxhall".

It has long been suggested that a Russian delegation visited the area to inspect the construction of the London and South Western Railway in 1840, and mistook the name for a generic title of the building type. This was further embellished into a story that the Tsar Nicholas I of Russia, visiting London in 1844, was taken to see the trains at Vauxhall and made the same mistake. However, the L&SWR's original railway terminus and the associated railway yards were always better known as Nine Elms.

A more likely explanation is that the first Russian railway, constructed in 1837, ran from Saint Petersburg via Tsarskoye Selo to Pavlovsk, where extensive Pleasure Gardens had earlier been established.

[Dactyl]

Someone's going to have to explain this to me.

A more likely explanation is that the first Russian railway, constructed in 1837, ran from Saint Petersburg via Tsarskoye Selo to Pavlovsk, where extensive Pleasure Gardens had earlier been established.

While this explanation may be 'more likely', I can't work out what the connection to vacsal is.

[Tarquin Farquart]

Originally Posted by Dactyl

While this explanation may be 'more likely', I can't work out what the connection to vacsal is.

Vacsal is the Russian word for pleasure gardens.

[Floater]

Originally Posted by Dactyl

While this explanation may be 'more likely', I can't work out what the connection to vacsal is.

It is explained in Tarquin's link. I reacted the same but then I read the whole story and found the explanation.

[ElapheG]

Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart

Vacsal is the Russian word for pleasure gardens.

Like Vauxhall Pleasure Gardens, frequently visited by the characters in Vanity Fair...?

I can't speak to the truth of the etymology of Vocsal for train station, but the story about the important Russian visiting Vauxhall station and then using the name for all stations was told to me by my school Russian teacher when we first learnt the word. She did rather like ULs though.

[Tarquin Farquart]

Originally Posted by ElapheG

Like Vauxhall Pleasure Gardens, frequently visited by the characters in Vanity Fair...?

Surely that's a tautology.

[llewtrah]

Originally Posted by ElapheG

Like Vauxhall Pleasure Gardens, frequently visited by the characters in Vanity Fair...?

I can't speak to the truth of the etymology of Vocsal for train station, but the story about the important Russian visiting Vauxhall station and then using the name for all stations was told to me by my school Russian teacher when we first learnt the word. She did rather like ULs though.

You beat me to it. Wilkie Collins mentions Vauxhall Pleasure Gardens in "No Name" (set in the 1840s) and the notes state they were in decline at the time. They are also on my 1851 London map.

[Andrew of Ware]

According to The London Encyclopaedia (edited by Ben Weinreb and Christopher Hibbert) the gardens were only called Vauxhall Gardens, with no mention of the word pleasure. The original gardens were opened before 1660 and were then called The New Spring Garden. In 1785 they were renamed Vaulxhall Gardens. They closed in 1840, reopened in 1842 before their closure in 1859.

[llewtrah]

I guess the "pleasure" bit was colloquial usage rather than formal name then.

[Tarquin Farquart]

It isn't a pleasure garden in London though, but one in Russia. As the railway lead to the pleasure gardens the generic name for station became the Russian for "pleasure gardens". Because the word sounds a bit like the name of a specific station here, rumours started that it was named after that station.

That's how I see it.

[Tarquin Farquart]

Originally Posted by ElapheG

I can't speak to the truth of the etymology of Vocsal for train station, but the story about the important Russian visiting Vauxhall station and then using the name for all stations was told to me by my school Russian teacher when we first learnt the word. She did rather like ULs though.

I've just noticed this. You did Russian at school? *impressed*

[Joostik]

The Russian Wikipedia gives yet another, not very convincing, third version:

Near the Pavlovsk railway station a hotel/restaurant with musical hall was built. It soon became very popular and was known as the vocal-musical salon (вокальный музыкальный салон). This then became abridged as voc-sal.

[Hans Off]

Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart

It isn't a pleasure garden in London though, but one in Russia.

That's how I see it.

I was going to say!

Vauxhall looks pretty dingy....more likley to be called the "Vauxhall Misery Gardens"

[Andrew of Ware]

I have seen pictures of Vauxhall Gardens - there is one in the London Encyclopaedia - and they look absolutely brilliant. What a shame they have been built over. Do the Russian gardens still exist?

[ElapheG]

Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart

It isn't a pleasure garden in London though, but one in Russia.

Oh, I know. I was just wondering if the Russian word for pleasure gardens was connected to Vauxhall Gardens at all. Makes slightly more sense, as the gardens were probably more significant than the station - lots of stations in London, probably only one pleasure garden.

Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart

I've just noticed this. You did Russian at school? *impressed*

Yus. I've got an A-level and everything.* Funky, huh?

*And have not studied it since, so don't test my vocabulary!

[Tarquin Farquart]

Originally Posted by ElapheG

*And have not studied it since, so don't test my vocabulary!

You probably know more that me, 90% of the Russian I know I got from A Clockwork Orange.

[ElapheG]

I can read it reasonably well, anyway, and have been told that I sound like throaty sexy evil Bond girl well speaking it And it does indeed help in watching and reading A Clockwork Orange!

I've just been looking at the Wiki entry for Vauxhall and it says that the railway terminus in the Pavlovsk pleasure gardens was named in homage to Vauxhall gardens. So there you go.

[Tarquin Farquart]

Originally Posted by ElapheG

I can read it reasonably well, anyway, and have been told that I sound like throaty sexy evil Bond girl well speaking it And it does indeed help in watching and reading A Clockwork Orange!

A lot of people big up the sexiness of, for example, French or Italian, but Russian has always been my favourite. It's just got lots of good sounds in it.

I've just been looking at the Wiki entry for Vauxhall and it says that the railway terminus in the Pavlovsk pleasure gardens was named in homage to Vauxhall gardens. So there you go.

Well I never! I'm not sure how I managed to miss that during my careful reading of the page.

[Floater]

Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart

You probably know more that me, 90% of the Russian I know I got from A Clockwork Orange.

And I got mine from A Fish Called Wanda.

[Tarquin Farquart]

Originally Posted by Floater

And I got mine from A Fish Called Wanda.

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten all about that bit.