Music quote from Plato

[Bohemian Rhapsody in Blue]

Anyone have any thoughts on this? It sounds a little fishy...


"Let me handle the music for one generation and I will control Rome." - Plato

[dfresh]

Wouldn't he have wanted to control Athens? I don't think that Rome was that major of a city in 347 BC when Plato died.

[Spam & Cookies-mmm]

He was pretty serious about music. But I can't find the exact quote.

I don't have my trusty copy of The Republic handy, but as has been pointed out, this quote is in keeping with his feelings about the usefulness of art in controlling a society. As has also been pointed out, even if the quote is in essence an accurate statement of his beliefs, Plato didn't care a lick about Rome. The Greek city-states were still the paradigm for his era, and Athens was one of the most powerful and influential.

Gadon,

[ganzfeld]

Originally Posted by dfresh

Wouldn't he have wanted to control Athens? I don't think that Rome was that major of a city in 347 BC when Plato died.

You're right that it wasn't that big at the time but a lot of historians think that it would have been a pretty good scene if Plato had been able to start pressing vinyl there. As it was, a lot of great Roman acts never got off the boot, although a few of them, such as the Toga Jerks (c. 350-360), went on to play in Pompeii.

[Bonnie]

Originally Posted by Bohemian Rhapsody in Blue

Anyone have any thoughts on this? It sounds a little fishy...

"Let me handle the music for one generation and I will control Rome." - Plato

Where did you encounter this?

-- Bonnie

[hoitoider]

Originally Posted by Gadon

I don't have my trusty copy of The Republic handy

I don't know if you mean a certain translation or what but all that stuff has been on the web for years

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.html for example

[Brad from Georgia]

To clarify, Plato didn't mean Rome the city, but K-ROM, a pioneering broadcast enterprise (a guy with a megaphone atop the Acropolis). He was fed up with the morning drive show ("And on the Beltway a tie-up involving an overturned bullock cart and at least three chariots....") and thought some lyre music would be a nice change.

[Bohemian Rhapsody in Blue]

Originally Posted by Bonnie

Where did you encounter this?

-- Bonnie

Sorry, Bonnie, I didn't see this!

My brother's girlfriend posted it as one of her "favorite quotes" on Facebook. She said she got it from a teacher a few years ago.

I was suspicious because of the reasons dfresh mentioned.

[Elkhound]

The version I remember was, "Show me who writes a nation's songs, and I care not who writes its laws."

[Chloe]

Originally Posted by Elkhound

The version I remember was, "Show me who writes a nation's songs, and I care not who writes its laws."

No google hits for that, though. Several for "Let me write a kingdom's (or country's, or nation's) songs, and I care not who writes its laws." Attributed to Napoleon, among others.

[Elkhound]

Originally Posted by Chloe

No google hits for that, though. Several for "Let me write a kingdom's (or country's, or nation's) songs, and I care not who writes its laws." Attributed to Napoleon, among others.

Well, I admitted that it was from memory, not the book.

But, no matter who said it, is it true, or not?

[I'mNotDedalus]

Whether or not it came from Plato, the quote is ridiculous (which may actually provide strong proof that it did, in fact, come from Plato). If a nation's musicians were its masters, wouldn't African Americans have fared better than any other culture/ethnic group/minority/etc. from 1920ish to the present? Then, academia & commissar media could pose such asinine questions as: "Will China or Jay-Z own the next century?"

[snopes]

Originally Posted by I'mNotDedalus

If a nation's musicians were its masters, wouldn't African Americans have fared better than any other culture/ethnic group/minority/etc. from 1920ish to the present?

No. Being adept at producing music and being adept at using music for political purposes are two very different things.

- snopes

[Silas Sparkhammer]

Originally Posted by snopes

No. Being adept at producing music and being adept at using music for political purposes are two very different things.

One notes the decline of the campaign song in American History. Where are the likes of "Tippecanoe and Tyler Too" or "A Hunter From Kentucky" in our time?

Silas

[Chloe]

Originally Posted by Elkhound

Well, I admitted that it was from memory, not the book.

But, no matter who said it, is it true, or not?

Surely whether or not the person in question would care rather depends on who he was?

[Elkhound]

Originally Posted by Chloe

Surely whether or not the person in question would care rather depends on who he was?

The truth or falsity of a statement is not dependant on who said it.

[Chloe]

Originally Posted by Elkhound

The truth or falsity of a statement is not dependant on who said it.

Of course it can be. If either you or me said, "I don't ride a bike," would it be true?

Originally Posted by Chloe

Of course it can be. If either you or me said, "I don't ride a bike," would it be true?

That seems like sophistry to me. Of course if the terms are not defined you can pretend the statements are the same. However the statements: "Person A does not ride a bike" and "Person B does not ride a bike" are each either true or false. This is independent of the speaker.

Gadon,

[Chloe]

Originally Posted by Gadon

That seems like sophistry to me. Of course if the terms are not defined you can pretend the statements are the same. However the statements: "Person A does not ride a bike" and "Person B does not ride a bike" are each either true or false. This is independent of the speaker.

Gadon,

But the statement in question was not "Person A does not care." It was "I do not care." How can we know whether or not that is true if we don't know who the "I" is?