Less than 1% of prisoners are atheists

[Skeptic]

According to a 1997 statistic, only 0.209% of prisoners incarcerated in the United States identify as atheists.

There are lots of quotes similar to the above floating around the internet, all claiming that atheists are under-represented in prisons.
The numbers vary, but are typically under 1 percent.
Is there any truth in this.

[lord_feldon]

A lot probably lie so they'll be more likely to be considered by parole boards.

[Buckle Up]

Originally Posted by lord_feldon

A lot probably lie so they'll be more likely to be considered by parole boards.

Or to get "good behavior" points by taking part in voluntary religious programs (Bible studies, etc.)

[Tarquin Farquart]

Well if you say you're religious you get to go to religious services. Better than sitting in a cell.

[Jay Tea]

Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart

Well if you say you're religious you get to go to religious services. Better than sitting in a cell.

Now 'that' depends entirely on your perspective.

I have to say I agree with the 'God for Parole' angle if indeed there is any truth herein. I am willing to bet a fair percentage of inmates have a less than enthusiastic belief in a deity, but are more than happy to doff a bible if it looks good.

[Tarquin Farquart]

Originally Posted by Jay Tea

Now 'that' depends entirely on your perspective.

At the very least it's a bit of variety.

[Jay Tea]

Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart

At the very least it's a bit of variety.

You'll find, upon incarceration, that you can get very protective about your own sparse little world, you could start a riot by attempting to drag somebody to church - I wouldn't go, I used to hide in the broom closet anyway when my overzealous relatives attempted to get me to see the light.

If it meant a stroll in the fresh air and the cool fresh waters of spirituality I might be inclined to agree with you but unless you'd bought into the 'church as early release' ethic, or thought a trip out of the prison may give you a chance to recon the perimeter, i'd sooner stay indisturbed - nick is one thing, but church as well?

[KKHB]

I have (and have had for as long as I can remember) a morbid curiosity/fascination with all things prison related (and serial killer or murder-related but that is probably more than y'all need to know about me ) But as a disclaimer, I have no interest in finding out anything from first hand experience.

Because of this morbid fascination I read a lot of "true-account" prison books and read forums (strictly as a lurker) meant for inmates, family of inmates, and ex-inmates.

What I have found is that it is probably true that atheists are under-represented in the prison population, but not because atheists are less prone to criminal activity or anything like that.

Almost every account or interview with inmates or ex-inmates begins with, "...then I found Jesus" or, "...then I found (insert religion of choice)". Which is repeated frequently and to anyone who might make a difference in parole or release. So I agree with:

Originally Posted by Jay Tea

I have to say I agree with the 'God for Parole' angle if indeed there is any truth herein. I am willing to bet a fair percentage of inmates have a less than enthusiastic belief in a deity, but are more than happy to doff a bible if it looks good.

I think it would be far more accurate to poll those who were close to the inmates prior to incarceration and asking *them* what religious affiliation if any the inmate has. I would bet dollars to donuts we would be looking at a far less "religious" prison population. And I think that if the parole boards made a blanket statement that religion (or lack there of) would not be considered at all (and I don't know if any consideration is really given to that now, but it seem to be a widely held belief that it is) we would probably see far fewer jailhouse conversions.

[Buckle Up]

Originally Posted by KKHB

And I think that if the parole boards made a blanket statement that religion (or lack there of) would not be considered at all (and I don't know if any consideration is really given to that now, but it seem to be a widely held belief that it is) we would probably see far fewer jailhouse conversions.

And perhaps we would also see less recidivism, because parole boards would be considering only true, accurate, behavioral patterns as opposed to false claims of redemption.

[KKHB]

Originally Posted by Buckle Up

And perhaps we would also see less recidivism, because parole boards would be considering only true, accurate, behavioral patterns as opposed to false claims of redemption.

That would be my thought as well. Reforming oneself is one thing, but let that be shown through real actions and behaviors and not, "But I am a good Christian/Muslim/Buddhist/whatever now, I wouldn't do that again!"

[E. Q. Taft]

I've occasionally thought about this. I personally am not religious, and I don't believe you need to have a belief in God to be a good person. But there are some people for whom a belief in God seems to change their behavior. Assuming such a belief to be a fallacy -- I'm not the aggressive atheist type who makes jokes about the invisible man in the sky, but let's assume it anyhow -- is it still a good thing if it results in a change of behavior?

The case that prompted these thoughts for me was reading about Charles "Tex" Watson, a member of the Manson Family who participated in the Tate/LaBianca murders. Since being imprisoned, he has not only become a born-again Christian, but operates something called Abounding Love Ministries, a prisoner outreach program.

My cynical side is prone to think he simply has a flawed personality that requires him to submit to some "deity", and he's simply exchanged Manson for Jesus. (However, even a cynic has to admit that if you've got to choose between the two, Jesus wins....) But if, through his ministry, he's helped turn some lives around and helped prevent some recidivism...or even just given some comfort to prisoners who will never be freed...it's hard to view it as a bad thing.

I find myself drawn towards a somewhat elitist view, that I don't need religion to be a good person, but it's a good thing for other people. I don't care for this, because it moves one towards the prospect of using religion in a cynical way -- as I believe that, say, Karl Rove does. But I suppose unless I'm willing to devote myself to working with a humanist organization that tries to do similar prison outreach, I have to live with it.

Then again, I wonder how many in prison hold the same view as Keaton in The Usual Suspects: "I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of Him."

[Squirt]

0.2% are atheists doesn't really tell us much without the rest of the data. 30% might be "agnostic" or "none" or left that bit of the form blank. Plenty of people would say "Christian" if they came from a traditionally christian family, even if they weren't themselves.

[KKHB]

Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft

I've occasionally thought about this. I personally am not religious, and I don't believe you need to have a belief in God to be a good person. But there are some people for whom a belief in God seems to change their behavior. Assuming such a belief to be a fallacy -- I'm not the aggressive atheist type who makes jokes about the invisible man in the sky, but let's assume it anyhow -- is it still a good thing if it results in a change of behavior?

If it results in a change of behavior (for the better) then I would think it is absolutely a good thing. The problem I have with inmates (because that is what we are talking about- not trying to single them out otherwise) "finding religion" is when it isn't sincere, and is just a ploy to get out of prison or excuse past behavior.

Sincere, religious epiphanies can and do happen even in the prison population, but too often (or perhaps only more vocally) it is just lip service. A person can be good without any religious beliefs at all and a person with religious beliefs can be not good despite them. I don't like the assumption that religious automatically means good which is what (many) inmates try to play upon.

[pinqy]

Originally Posted by KKHB

Almost every account or interview with inmates or ex-inmates begins with, "...then I found Jesus" or, "...then I found (insert religion of choice)". Which is repeated frequently and to anyone who might make a difference in parole or release.

But I would think that most of the people who "found Jesus" or became Muslim were already nominally Christian. There's a large number of people who would identify themselves as Christian, or claim a general belief in God, but would not identify themselves as atheist or agnostic despite no church attendance and lack of any coherent theology.

I think it would be far more accurate to poll those who were close to the inmates prior to incarceration and asking *them* what religious affiliation if any the inmate has. I would bet dollars to donuts we would be looking at a far less "religious" prison population.

I agree, but word choice would be very important in that survey. Again, there are probably millions of people in the US without any coherent theology or real belief (never really questioned the existence of God but passively accepted the idea since that's what they were surrounded by) who would not positively ID themselves as atheist or agnostic.

In my experience, which may or may not have any relation to reality, those who do identify themselves positively as atheist/agnostic tend to be more educated and at least upper working class.

pinqy

[KKHB]

Originally Posted by pinqy

In my experience, which may or may not have any relation to reality, those who do identify themselves positively as atheist/agnostic tend to be more educated and at least upper working class.

pinqy

I agree with you. Also IME, most (non devout) people when asked specifically, "What religion are you?" will respond with whatever religion their family claimed to be- whether it was actually practiced or not. I have met hundreds of "Christians" who have no idea what that means in terms of religious beliefs, and I have met many more who I would consider atheist or agnostic by virtue of the beliefs they claim to hold but who still self identify as whichever religion they call home.

[Rocketship]

I think there is also the possibility that the prison population does have a genuinely higher Christian conversion rate.

The reason is this: if an inmate has been convicted of a crime, s/he likely feels some guilt for what s/he did. Society hasn't forgiven; rather, it has punished the inmate. However, all the inmate has to do to get ultimate forgiveness, s/he is told, is to ask Jesus.

Probably sounds like a good deal to some of these folks.

[hoitoider]

Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft

The case that prompted these thoughts for me was reading about Charles "Tex" Watson, a member of the Manson Family who participated in the Tate/LaBianca murders.

I remember thinking the same thing about Watergater Charles Colson. At first everyone thought he was up to something, but he seems to be pretty sincere about it.

[Broken Sword]

Originally Posted by lord_feldon

A lot probably lie so they'll be more likely to be considered by parole boards.

[comparing stat to national statistics]

98% of athiests will lie to get what they want!!!

[Johnny Slick]

Another point to consider is that Christianity especially is a religion whose main selling point is forgiveness. Their whole doctrine is based around the idea that it doesn't matter how many people you raped or how many you murdered, if you love the great robes of Jesus you will get to go to Heaven. That's got to be huge for convicted criminals, to be able to give themselves a slate as clean as that of an 8 year old schoolgirl (cleaner if said 8 year old is the daughter of dirty hippies) just by believing in a talking snake or two.

Also, the poor tend to be overrepresented in both religious groups and prison. I'm sure there's a common denominator there somewhere.

[Victoria J]

Has anyone got any evidence that this statistic wasn't just made up ?

It's very easy to come up with possible explanations but we may just be wasting our time I'd think possible explaining factors could include :

• greater number of conversions
• people wishing to appear religious for parole etc.
• peer pressure
• caused by other imbalances in the prison population

Peer pressure could be an important factor where religion is part of the basis for establishing affiliation (Christian, Nation of Islam) and in such circumstances people may state religion just as an indicator of cultural background.

I'd also suspect that it would be fairer to compare the percentage of Atheists in prison not with the percentage in the general populations but with consideration to the biases in the prison population. I doubt atheists are equally distributed among different races and there is a well known over representation of black people in prison. I'd suspect that the greatest bias in prisons is to those from impoverished backgrounds and I'd be interested to know how that affects proportions of atheists.

I'll try to avoid implying that only educated people are atheists (which may then imply educated people should be atheists) - but spending a lot of time questioning your belief system may tend to be something you get round to doing only when you aren't panicking about keeping a roof over your head. It's certainly something I associate with liberal middle classes.

If there is a bias in people claiming religion just because their family background is within that religion I would expect that to apply to surveys in the general population as well.

I'd be interested in comparing it to hospital figures - people often do give religion on hospital forms, and it may be that in such situations (where it may be used to determine their funeral arrangements among other things) people are more likely to choose some affiliation.

Originally Posted by Squirt

0.2% are atheists doesn't really tell us much without the rest of the data. 30% might be "agnostic" or "none" or left that bit of the form blank. Plenty of people would say "Christian" if they came from a traditionally christian family, even if they weren't themselves.

I think that's a very good point.

Victoria J