Two Dogs

Sensitive issue here so I'll be careful.

There is a fairly common joke that does the rounds here which goes something like this:

"Native Americans name their children after the first thing their child sees. When one man tried to find out what his name meant in his native language, it meant 'Two Dogs F***ing'."

This one seems like a fairly easy target for debunking. For starters, the only references to the joke only seem to come from the UK suggesting that there is not a true link to any fact. Plus, the suggestion that all native americans name their children in the same way is plainly false.

However, from this point the debunking runs into trouble. Lengthy internet searches fail to find any websites attempting to debunk the joke, even amongst native american websites (which is a little strange since if this joke was widespread in the US I would have expected someone to have tried to disprove it, hence why I believe it is isolated to the UK). The large number of native american languages, tribes and bands etc makes ruling out the practice of naming children after the first thing they see very difficult so it remains possible that the joke could be true.

Hence the debunking seems to be reliant upon prving that the joke has a non-native american source.

Help!!!

[Dutch Angua]

I dunno if it's true, but it's part of a joke in one of the Discworld books...can't remember which one.

[geminilee]

One of the Susan books, I think Thief of Time. It was the lady's (forget her name and I am not near my books) spirit helper. He was named One-Man-Bucket( actually, One Man Pouring a Bucket Of Water Over Two Dogs), which he says is a vast improvement over his twin brother's, who was born a minute earlier, name. (I am sure you can guess what it was).
ETA: It was Reaper Man, the lady is Mrs. Cake.

[Dutch Angua]

Ahhh, yeah, I remember now...I just MUST catch up with my Pratchett-knowlegde!

Thanks guys, that may just be the key to my research. It would certainly explain why the joke seems to be isolated to the UK.

My research has now taken me onto earlier references for the joke (thanks for the help there guys, it's moved things on a bit).

This message on the internet, made in 1984 (by an eployee of Bell) refers to a film called Silkwood (released in 1983) where the joke also appeared:

http://groups.google.com/group/net.j...f7ac97?lnk=st&

This is the IMDB entry for the film: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086312/

I don't know if any of you know any obvious reference from before then. I doubt any such reference will be on the internet so I think it'll be time for me to hit the books.

[snopes]

Originally Posted by grizzly

Hence the debunking seems to be reliant upon prving that the joke has a non-native american source.

That still wouldn't "debunk" the joke, since you can't absolutely rule out the possibility that some couple, somewhere, sometime, had a practice of naming their children after the first thing the newborns saw.

- snopes

That's a fair point. I suppose what I am attempting to show is that practice was not common enough to represent a significant part of any native american society.

I'm currently in contact with a few experts in the US on this point although even they wont be able to provide me with a broad view of every native american tribe/band.

Interestingly a couple of books have come up from around 1906-1911 suggesting that the practice did actually occur in the Sioux and Navajo native americans but in both cases it notes that the practice was rare. Nor is their authenticity guarenteed, they provide no examples and only mention it in passing.

[FullMetal]

well I've heard that joke lots around here. Alberta Canada.

but it usually is different than the what the child first see's. the Punchline goes "When a child is born, the chief goes and stands on the edge of the village, and looks out upon the prairie, and the first thing he notices is what the great spirit has chosen to name the child. Why do you ask, Two dogs f***ing?"

as for debunking it. I think it's just a joke, and really doesn't need debunking.

[geminilee]

That is how I heard it in Florida, FullMetal.

[Yleemjseg]

I've heard a variant where the child's name is revealed at the end to be Broken Rubber.

[pob14]

I've heard versions of that joke for years, and I've never even been to the UK.

There was a TV commercial a while ago for some car . . . Mom telling her daughter that her brother is named Conrad because they honeymooned at the Conrad Hilton . . . something like that - I wish I remembered it better. Anyway, it ends with the daughter looking horrified and Mom asking, "What's wrong, Mercedes?" Or whatever the car was.

(Jeez, think I could post a little more vaguely next time??? )

ETA: It was the Chrysler Concorde, and strangely enough the girl was horrified at the story of her sister's conception, not her own. Well, hey, I was almost very nearly close.

[ganzfeld]

I have a similar problem. I've been looking all around the Internet to find out why the chicken crossed the road but all I can find are punchlines to the question. No one seems to be able to confirm even the simple fact that a chicken crossed a road. Ducklings crossing the road somehow manage to get on the evening news but for some reason chickens, despite what you'd think with all the controversy, never make it to prime time.

I have, however, confirmed that a priest, a minister, and a rabbi all walked into a bar at the same time.

ETA -- I think the joke mentioned in the OP was most popularized by the movie Silkwood. (That was the first time I heard it. Thanks to my uncle, who didn't have any qualms about taking his young nephews to R rated movies. Thanks uncle D!)

[High Eight]

Terry Pratchett's version (you, were right, Gem, it is from Reaper Man)

"Why are you called One-man-bucket?"
"...In my tribe we're traditionally named after the first thing my mother sees when she looks out of the tepee after the birth. It's short for one-man-pouring-a-bucket-of-water-over-two-dogs."
"That's pretty unfortunate."
"It's not too bad. It was my twin brother you had to feel sorry for. She looked out ten seconds before me to give him his name."
"don't tell me, let me guess. Two-dogs-fighting?"
"Two-dogs-fighting? Two-dogs-fighting? Wow, he would have given his right arm to be called Two-dogs-fighting."

[glisp42]

The way I always heard it was:

A young Indian Brave asked the Medicine Man how he chose names for all of the children born to the tribe. The Medicine Man says, "I name them after the first thing I see. Why do you ask 2 Dogs NFBSKing?"

Incidentally, there was a GM Executive whose nickname was 2 Dogs because this was his favorite joke.

[eif]

Usually there is a lead in like,
"When your brother was born, I saw a brown bear in the distance, so I named him Brown Bear. When your sister was born I saw an eagle high in the sky, so I named her Soaring Eagle. Why do you ask Two-dogs Fxxxxxx?"

[Grand Illusion]

The same type of humor has been used with African-American subjects: Link

[RichardM]

Originally Posted by pob14

I've heard versions of that joke for years, and I've never even been to the UK.

There was a TV commercial a while ago for some car . . . Mom telling her daughter that her brother is named Conrad because they honeymooned at the Conrad Hilton . . . something like that - I wish I remembered it better. Anyway, it ends with the daughter looking horrified and Mom asking, "What's wrong, Mercedes?" Or whatever the car was.

(Jeez, think I could post a little more vaguely next time??? )

ETA: It was the Chrysler Concorde, and strangely enough the girl was horrified at the story of her sister's conception, not her own. Well, hey, I was almost very nearly close.

The former child actor and now director Ron Howard claims this is how his children were named.

[tagurit]

I was friends with a cherokee man several years ago whose name was Johnny Two Feathers (from the sky). It seems after he was born his grandfather went outside, startled a flock of birds and as they suddenly flew off, two feathers fell to the ground. So, I don't think if there is a naming tradition it has anything to do with what the baby saw, more likely events occuring around the time of birth. Probably doesn't apply to all tribes either. I think that some native american cultures name their children (or had) after traits of animals or natural elements they wish for them. Cunning of a fox, stealth of a cougar, wisdom/cleverness of a wolf, strength of a bear, etc.