Husband remains in the dark about wife's nighttime visitor

[Algae]

Haven't we talked about this once before?

First Letter

[Magdalene]

I read that, and I'm a bit, "Huh?" about that.

I'm of two minds on that--part of me thinks if the wife was sick, tired, and perhaps had taken cold medicine, she might've been *just* groggy enough to be fooled, especially if the brother in question kept fairly quiet and stuck to 'vanilla sex'.

But for some niggling reason, I think the wife was more aware/more willing participant of what was going on than she admits, may have had a guilty conscience, and 'confessed' to her husband under the guise of "It wasn't my fault honey, really, I thought it was you in the dark!" (I obviously have nothing to base that on, just some odd feeling.)

Magdalene

[Artemis]

Yeah, I don't think I believe it either. It's way too "Decameron"-esque. The idea that someone can suddenly disgusie themselves because it's dark out...the whole thing seems as ridiculous now as it was then.

[rockstar1976]

I have definitely heard this one before, and wish I could remember where, but it was definitely somewhere where it was debunked...sorry no cite, but I'm sure of it.

[Ana Ng]

Sounds like a classic Dear Abby UL.

But, if the wife were a "willing participant", why would she fess up so readily the next day? Why not wait until she was called on it to explain herself?

And also, if it was true, and did go down as stated, the husband is letting the rape of his wife slide. Um, creepy much? And one of his brothers is a rapist, and he isn't telling her she was violated because he's jealous?

WTF, mate?

[Aimee Evilpixie]

Seriously, this was a real rape case we discussed here a while ago! A woman was asleep and her husband's brother came in the room and had sex with her. It wasn't until he was finished and left that she saw it was the brother and not the husband. We had a big debate about whether or not it was rape. I can't find the thread, though.

[rangerdog]

Well it would be rape if the brother knew. The raping brother, that is.

[rhiandmoi]

Originally Posted by Aimee Evilpixie

Seriously, this was a real rape case we discussed here a while ago! A woman was asleep and her husband's brother came in the room and had sex with her. It wasn't until he was finished and left that she saw it was the brother and not the husband. We had a big debate about whether or not it was rape. I can't find the thread, though.

ARG! I totally remember this thread. There was a entire discussion about whether or not various snopesters would be able to tell the difference.

ETA: Here is the discussion, which is a seperate thread:
http://message.snopes.com/showthread...768#post171768

[Aimee Evilpixie]

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi

ARG! I totally remember this thread. There was a entire discussion about whether or not various snopesters would be able to tell the difference.

ETA: Here is the discussion, which is a seperate thread:
http://message.snopes.com/showthread...768#post171768

Thank you! At least we have some evidence that it wasn't a mass hallucination now. What on earth happened to the thread, though?

[rhiandmoi]

Originally Posted by Aimee Evilpixie

Thank you! At least we have some evidence that it wasn't a mass hallucination now. What on earth happened to the thread, though?

I have been searching and searching and have found nothing. It must have been purged. I have even been looking in the different forums for all the threads from that time period. It was a really good one too. Of all the threads not to have a traceback link.

[Aimee Evilpixie]

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi

I have been searching and searching and have found nothing. It must have been purged. I have even been looking in the different forums for all the threads from that time period. It was a really good one too. Of all the threads not to have a traceback link.

Too true! There were some great arguments in there on both sides of the debate. And now it comes up again and we can't find it!

[Ana Ng]

Can someone summarize how anyone argued it wasn't rape? Or wasn't creepy?

Re: identity, Hannah Montana is world famous and can hide from the entire bleeding world with just a blonde wig.

[Aimee Evilpixie]

Originally Posted by Ana Ng

Can someone summarize how anyone argued it wasn't rape? Or wasn't creepy?

Essentially, she consented to sex, and then took back the consent afterwards. Because she had consented when she thought it was her husband, the consent should still stand, even though the consent was obtained through deceit.

I heartily disagree, but that was the gist of it.

[Elsie]

Originally Posted by Ana Ng

Can someone summarize how anyone argued it wasn't rape? Or wasn't creepy?

Re: identity, Hannah Montana is world famous and can hide from the entire bleeding world with just a blonde wig.

IIRC, the case was was determined not to be rape by a court because it didn't meet the legal definition by the state (it might have been Massachuetts, but I don't really remember). Anyway, mostly everyone here seemed to agree that it was wrong and creepy and a totally crap thing for the brother to do, but not everyone agreed that it was rape. I think some people stuck to the "well the state says it's not rape so that's good enough for me" argument. But some people were absolutely convinced there was no way that a woman could have sex with someone and not know that it wasn't her husband, ergo she knew who she was hving sex with, consented to it, and it wasn't rape. As far as consent went, some people thought that since she must have known it was the brother as opposed to her husband and she continued to have sex anyway that she consented, while others thought she must have been leading the brother on, if not outright coming on to him, which is what lead him to her room that night, thereby making it an invitation from her and not rape.

[BringTheNoise]

Originally Posted by Aimee Evilpixie

Essentially, she consented to sex, and then took back the consent afterwards. Because she had consented when she thought it was her husband, the consent should still stand, even though the consent was obtained through deceit.

I heartily disagree, but that was the gist of it.

There was a similar case here in Scotland (a woman got drunk at a party and went to bed, a man she thought was her boyfriend came into the room and started having sex with her, and she only realised it wasn't her bf after the sex was over). That was held to be rape via fraud (as she wouldn't have consented if she realised who he was at the time). I'll see if I can find the citation later.

[ladychrisdean]

If I might interject another opinion on the letter itself...

When I read the letter in Dear Abby I couldn't help but wonder if the wife was lying to get attention from her husband or to cause a rift between her husband and his brothers.

Maybe she tried to flirt with one of the brothers and was rebuffed so she told her husband a "story" to make him mad at his brothers.

If this is what happened, I wonder if she got what she wanted or because the husband didn't show any reaction to her if she is mad at him for not shouting out that it wasn't him?

[The Nanny]

Originally Posted by ladychrisdean

If I might interject another opinion on the letter itself...

When I read the letter in Dear Abby I couldn't help but wonder if the wife was lying to get attention from her husband or to cause a rift between her husband and his brothers.

Maybe she tried to flirt with one of the brothers and was rebuffed so she told her husband a "story" to make him mad at his brothers.

If this is what happened, I wonder if she got what she wanted or because the husband didn't show any reaction to her if she is mad at him for not shouting out that it wasn't him?

Or maybe, if she was getting sick and took Nyquil she seriously could have imagined it! I've had strange dreams on Nyquil and have had to check them out later on to see if they really happened...

[Cyrano]

Hmmm... the story sounds familiar... let's see:

Zeus, who felt intense desire for the beautiful - but very faithful - Alcmene, fooled her into having sex by taking the appearance of her husband Amphytrion, and thus spawned Heracles.

Same goes for Uther Pendragon who, with Merlin's help, entered Igraine's bed disguising as her husband, the result of this trickery being Arthur the King.

Who knows, maybe a hero will be born soon.

[RobDBlackwolf]

Reading the title of this thread, I couldn't fail to imagine...

Monty Pythons Flying Circus: Strangers in the night

[rockstar1976]

Dan Savage wrote about this whole business in his latest column. Of course, he could smell the BS a mile away:

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/S...ove?oid=541805

it's the second part of the article.