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Old 05 February 2008, 06:18 AM
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Chef Milk and eggs not eaten during Lent?

This question is appropriate for today, being Shrove Tuesday, but is it true that milk and eggs were not eaten during Lent. This is often given as the reason for the pancakes traditionally eaten today.
A cow can not just stop being milked, nor will a hen stop laying on command. Therefore there would have been a lot of wasted food.

Last edited by Skeptic; 05 February 2008 at 06:19 AM. Reason: added a bit. Meant to preview.
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  #2  
Old 05 February 2008, 10:31 AM
Insensible Crier Insensible Crier is offline
 
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I know Eastern Orthodox doesn't eat eggs or dairy (or meat) during all of Lent. You could make the milk into cheese and save it for after lent. Not sure what to do about the eggs. Pickle them?
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Old 05 February 2008, 10:34 AM
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I have been told that Catholics can't eat meat on Friday, unless it's seafood. Of course, I've also been told this is the case year-round. Any insight?

I also thought that in either case, the practice dated from WW2 and rationing. Another UL?
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Old 05 February 2008, 10:55 AM
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I haven't been a Catholic for years, but I was going to say that Catholics were not allowed to eat meat on Friday until Vatican II and then it was permitted.

However, in looking it up on the web, it appears that Catholics are still supposed to abstain from meat on Friday unless they do an act of penance. I know we have some knowledgeable Catholics here, so maybe one of them could explain the current practice.
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Old 05 February 2008, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Insensible Crier View Post
I know Eastern Orthodox doesn't eat eggs or dairy (or meat) during all of Lent. You could make the milk into cheese and save it for after lent. Not sure what to do about the eggs. Pickle them?
At Sunday School I was told that this was the origin of Easter Eggs - but this may be an UL. Chickens continued to lay eggs during Lent, so come Easter Day there were lots of eggs to eat. Thus eating eggs on that day became a tradition.

Full marks to whoever decided to change the tradition from eating real eggs to eating chocolate ones.
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  #6  
Old 05 February 2008, 11:33 AM
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Catholics abstain from eating meat, but seafood is allowed, on Fridays during Lent and on Ash Wednesday. Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are also days of fasting. See here.

It used to be a year-round practice, but it's not any longer. Our priest last week mentioned we're supposed to do a penance if we eat meat on Fridays throughout the year, but I've never heard anyone else say that, including Cardinal Maida when he's been interviewed about it.

Oh, and if St. Patrick's Day falls on a Friday, most bishops grant a dispensation to allow corned beef to be eaten.

Here in the Detroit area, today is celebrated as Paczki Day (it's pronounced poonch-key), where we eat wonderfully yummy, calorie laden donut things.
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Old 05 February 2008, 11:44 AM
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Today is Shrove Tuesday, so don't forget to make pancakes today - the homes of those that do are said to stay free of roaches, bugs, and other vermin for the whole year.
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Old 05 February 2008, 12:06 PM
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Today is Shrove Tuesday, so don't forget to make pancakes today - the homes of those that do are said to stay free of roaches, bugs, and other vermin for the whole year.
Does it matter if they're savoury or sweet?
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Old 05 February 2008, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew of Ware View Post
At Sunday School I was told that this was the origin of Easter Eggs - but this may be an UL. Chickens continued to lay eggs during Lent, so come Easter Day there were lots of eggs to eat. Thus eating eggs on that day became a tradition.

Full marks to whoever decided to change the tradition from eating real eggs to eating chocolate ones.
The eggs I'm fairly certain is a carry over from the pagan traditions that were assimilated by Christianity (which is where the Easter bunny comes from). They are supposed to be a symbol of rebirth and renewal as part of the Spring celebration.

I was just trying to think of ways to not waste dairy and eggs if you happen to have cows or chickens. Because Eastern Orthodox (I used to have a bunch of friends who were) are basically vegan for every day of Lent. They can only eat shellfish. You are allowed exemptions for health or other reasons like babies are still allowed milk. Now maybe this only applied to their church but my impression is that Eastern Orthodox are pretty standardized when it comes to rules.

And actually the waste of eggs and dairy is an issue pretty much year round for anyone with farm animals. A friend of mine had a cow that produced 3-4 gallons of milk a day and you have to keep milking the cow or she'll dry up. So unless you have a dozen kids, you are not going to use that much milk in one day so you either sell it, give it away or do things like make cheese. Otherwise you throw it away.

Eggs are a little easier. Chickens lay about one egg per day so you can keep up with their output depending on the number of chickens you have and how many eggs you use. Plus eggs keep for a very long time (compared to milk) as long as you keep them refrigerated.
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  #10  
Old 05 February 2008, 12:55 PM
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I'm Catholic, and we definitely eat eggs and drink milk. In fact, since we kids were kind of picky eaters (most wouldn't eat fish until we were a little older), my mom used to make something on Fridays called cheese strata. It's made with milk, eggs and bread.
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Old 05 February 2008, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Algae View Post
Here in the Detroit area, today is celebrated as Paczki Day (it's pronounced poonch-key), where we eat wonderfully yummy, calorie laden donut things.
"Pączki" - with a little accent on the "a" - is the Polish word for "donuts".

"Paczki" - without the accent - is the Polish word for "packages".
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Old 05 February 2008, 01:23 PM
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I was raised Catholic, and we always had eggs and milk during lent. No meat on fridays all year round, with fasting on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. But we were allowed fish, which was great really because it gave me a taste for it.
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Old 05 February 2008, 01:46 PM
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Historically animals did not produce all year round the way they are engineered to now. By spring you'd likely want your cows and chickens reproducing anyway. Let the eggs hatch!
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  #14  
Old 05 February 2008, 02:24 PM
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I think it was the 60s when Catholics were no longer required to abstain from meat on a Friday.
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  #15  
Old 05 February 2008, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaGirl View Post
I have been told that Catholics can't eat meat on Friday, unless it's seafood. Of course, I've also been told this is the case year-round. Any insight?

I also thought that in either case, the practice dated from WW2 and rationing. Another UL?
During WWII, families were encouraged to eat meatless meals at least 1-2 times a week. That practice was unrelated to the (pre-Vatican II) Catholic practice of abstaining from meat on Fridays, which predates the war.

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Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart View Post
I think it was the 60s when Catholics were no longer required to abstain from meat on a Friday.
That's when Vatican II happened. Of course, that didn't stop public schools in my town (and maybe others) from serving fish sticks every single NFBSKing Friday of the school year.
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Old 05 February 2008, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
That's when Vatican II happened. Of course, that didn't stop public schools in my town (and maybe others) from serving fish sticks every single NFBSKing Friday of the school year.
I went to public school for grades K-4 and the school served meatless lunches on Friday (usually fish sticks, tomato soup w/grilled cheese sammies, or peanut butter and jelly). This is something I bring up every time someone complains about "political correctness gone mad" in the form of actually accomodating another (non-xian) religion.
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  #17  
Old 05 February 2008, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Simply Madeline View Post
I went to public school for grades K-4 and the school served meatless lunches on Friday (usually fish sticks, tomato soup w/grilled cheese sammies, or peanut butter and jelly). This is something I bring up every time someone complains about "political correctness gone mad" in the form of actually accomodating another (non-xian) religion.
We had grilled cheese & tomato soup, too. Those sandwiches were so deliciously bad and greasy. I loved them then, but I think one would make me sick now.
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Old 05 February 2008, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
That's when Vatican II happened. Of course, that didn't stop public schools in my town (and maybe others) from serving fish sticks every single NFBSKing Friday of the school year.
HA HA! We got cheese enchiladas in New Mexico. mmmm...cheese enchiladas.


I have never heard of abstaining from milk and eggs during Lent.

The reason you have pancakes on Shrove Tuesday, I have heard before and again this morning on the radio, was to use up all the fat (for frying) as you weren't to have fat in the house during Lent.

Now I have no idea where that came from - sounds like something borrowed from not having any leaven during Passover.
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Old 05 February 2008, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by snapdragonfly View Post
HA HA! We got cheese enchiladas in New Mexico. mmmm...cheese enchiladas.


Quote:
The reason you have pancakes on Shrove Tuesday, I have heard before and again this morning on the radio, was to use up all the fat (for frying) as you weren't to have fat in the house during Lent.

Now I have no idea where that came from - sounds like something borrowed from not having any leaven during Passover.
Mardi Gras, the French term for Shrove Tuesday, literally means "Fat Tuesday." In French class, we were taught that it was called that because it was the last day of eating fat (and other indulgences) before Lent.

ETA: According to Wikipedia, several other languages also use the term "Fat Tuesday" for the day before lent.

Quote:
Shrove Tuesday is the last day of "shrovetide," which is the English equivalent to the Carnival tradition that developed separately out of the countries of Latin Europe. In countries of the Carnival tradition, the day before Ash Wednesday is known either as the "Tuesday of Carnival" (in Spanish-speaking countries, "Martes de Carnaval," in Portuguese-speaking countries, "Terça-feira de Carnaval", in German "Faschingsdienstag") or "Fat Tuesday" (in Portuguese-speaking countries "Terça-feira Gorda", in French-speaking countries, "Mardi Gras," in Italian-speaking countries, "Martedì Grasso", in Sweden, "Fettisdagen"). In Estonian, Vastlapäev.
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  #20  
Old 05 February 2008, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
That's when Vatican II happened. Of course, that didn't stop public schools in my town (and maybe others) from serving fish sticks every single NFBSKing Friday of the school year.
Ah so that's what it is. They used to do fish every friday at the canteen at my previous job. Not a large number of Catholics there...
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