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  #21  
Old 01 February 2008, 11:06 AM
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Don Enrico Don Enrico is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
7. 75% of L.A.'s Most Wanted are illegals.
The LAPD's Most Wanted list gives information on "Descent" (for example "White" or "Hispanic") and sometimes additional information in the "Crime information" text ("XY is of Armenian descent").

It doesn't give any information on the residence permit status.

I wonder where the author of the E-Mail got information from not even the LAPD seems to have (or is ready to share).

Don Enrico
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  #22  
Old 01 February 2008, 11:34 AM
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What all the anti-immigrationist seem to be saying is:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door........ unless you're a Mexican!"
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  #23  
Old 01 February 2008, 11:57 AM
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Ana Ng Ana Ng is offline
 
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Originally Posted by surfcitydogdad View Post
What gets me is sometimes I write back and ask - to a couple of people who forward me these things - you do realize I married an "illegal alien," don't you?
That makes me think of I Married Dora. I didn't realize it til you said it, but I did, too. My illegal immigrant was Irish, do you think people get all upset about that? Why aren't they building a wall at Aer Lingus arrivals at JFK or up in the Bronx?
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  #24  
Old 01 February 2008, 02:18 PM
Jonny T
 
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Originally Posted by surfcitydogdad View Post
I obviously don't care who is in the US legally or not, as long as they aren't criminals, communists, or terrorists.
and if they are? they get deported for their beliefs?
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  #25  
Old 01 February 2008, 04:41 PM
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Dr. Winston O'Boogie Dr. Winston O'Boogie is offline
 
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Boy, are we getting lazy here or what. I see a lot of ridiculing of the OT (as well there should be!), but no one is actually debunking it!

Let's start with the easy ones:
Quote:
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles for illegals.

3. Less than 2% of illegals are picking crops, but 41% are on welfare.

4. More than 66% of all births in California are to illegals on Medi-Cal, paid by the US TAXPAYER.

5. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties in U.S. are illegals.

7. 75% of L.A.'s Most Wanted are illegals.

8. More than half of all gang members are illegals.
are all discussed on this snopes page. Of the other 4,
Quote:
1. More than 43% of all Food Stamps are given to illegals.
Nope. Illegal aliens are not eligible for food stamps. They can, however, receive them on behaf of their citizan children.
Quote:
6. More than 39% of California students grades 1-12 are illegals.
If you said "are children of illegal aliens", I *might* believe it. Then again, no. Still too high of a number. If you said "39% of LA County students are children of illegal aliens", I would believe it. From The US Census Bureau, 35.9% of California residents are hispanic (not necessarily illegal); I know this doesn't truely debunk it, but,... no.
Quote:
9. US companies using illegals in 2005 profited over 2.36 TRILLION dollars.
Plausable, but I would like to know who compiled, what their criteria was, etc. Sounds to me kinda like "73% of all statistics are made up".
Quote:
10. US Tax payers are footing the bill for ALL illegals.
To a certain extent, yes, in the same way that US taxpayers are footing the bill for RJ Reynolds profits (subsidies to farms, etc), Coke (subsidies to sugar farmers), etc. Some of our tax monies do go to illegals (for humanitarian reasons); some of our purchases go to companies that hire illegals; get over it.
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  #26  
Old 01 February 2008, 04:56 PM
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No

If this
Quote:
4. More than 66% of all births in California are to illegals on Medi-Cal, paid by the US TAXPAYER.
were true, then I would suspect this
Quote:
6. More than 39% of California students grades 1-12 are illegals.
was not. Unless the "illegals" only recently started breeding 2/3 of all births in California, statistics would suggest that 66% of students would be children of illegal aliens born in the US, making the students themselves citizens. That only leaves 34% who could be illegal themselves. And that is assuming 100% of the students were either illegal aliens or the children of illegal aliens. Statewide, no less.

I'm certain all the statistics are false, though.
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  #27  
Old 01 February 2008, 08:14 PM
Venus Venus is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damian View Post
What all the anti-immigrationist seem to be saying is:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door........ unless you're a Mexican!"
Actually, to be fair to what anti-immigrationists actually believe it's more along the lines of:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door........ unless you're sneaking in the back window instead of coming in the front door.

I'm sure there are some people against immigration period, but most are just against the illegal kind.
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  #28  
Old 01 February 2008, 08:21 PM
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Buckle Up Buckle Up is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venus View Post
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door........ unless you're sneaking in the back window instead of coming in the front door.

I'm sure there are some people against immigration period, but most are just against the illegal kind.
"Give me your tired, your poor but not willing to go on welfare,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free while working very hard at menial labor,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me,
after submitting reams of notarized paperwork
and waiting for seven to ten years to be approved, if at all;
I lift my lamp beside the golden door
to make sure no one is sneaking in under cover of darkness,
and to whack them over the head with said lamp
if they have over-procreated, stayed on public assistance,
become sick or disabled, failed to adopt American language and customs while rejecting their native ones,
or otherwise failed to live up to my expectations."
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  #29  
Old 01 February 2008, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venus View Post
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door........ unless you're sneaking in the back window instead of coming in the front door.
So if unskilled Mexican laborers just asked nicely to come in, there'd be no problem? Why don't they do that, then?
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  #30  
Old 01 February 2008, 08:30 PM
Magdalene Magdalene is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nancyfancypants View Post
I am so sick of hearing people moan about immigrants. The ones I hear moaning the loudest are children/grandchildren/etc. of immigrants. Have they all forgotten that? What's the difference between someone who leaves Mexico and comes to the U.S. in this century and all those who left there and other countries in the last century?

My paternal grandparents came here from Poland. My maternal great-grandparents came here from Yugoslavia and Ireland. If they hadn't, obviously I wouldn't exist. I'd love to add a comment to this person's MySpace that says, "Yeah? And where are your ancestors from?"

I think most people are complaining about *illegal* immigrants versus legal (got the visa, whichever) immigrants. There is a difference. Plus, the standards to get in 100 years ago were probably much different from what they are today.

Granted, there probably are those who don't care whether they're here legally or not, but I think it's the legal status that gets most people worked up.

Magdalene
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  #31  
Old 01 February 2008, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdalene View Post
I think most people are complaining about *illegal* immigrants versus legal (got the visa, whichever) immigrants. There is a difference.
I respectfully disagree with you. For many of the people complaining, I believe that one's legal status as an illegal immigrant is just a scapegoat of sorts, an excuse that allows them to hate and protest against immigrants and in some cases Mexicans, without being accused of racism. I have some specific examples of personal friends of which I am thinking here; of course I do not believe that all people who are against illegal immigration share that hatred (thank goodness).
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  #32  
Old 01 February 2008, 09:15 PM
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surfcitydogdad surfcitydogdad is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny T View Post
and if they are? they get deported for their beliefs?
No, it's just that "communists" is one class of people that has not been allowed to immigrate to the US. I was half kidding - but only half, because state collectivism is antithetical to liberty. Communism is pretty much a relic of the early to mid 20th century, anyway, and our anti-communism laws of the 1950s relics, as well. If someone who is of that persuasion sneaks across the border to work, l don't see any problem. In fact, they would seem to be a practicing capitalist.
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  #33  
Old 01 February 2008, 09:20 PM
Elsie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckle Up View Post
I respectfully disagree with you. For many of the people complaining, I believe that one's legal status as an illegal immigrant is just a scapegoat of sorts, an excuse that allows them to hate and protest against immigrants and in some cases Mexicans, without being accused of racism. I have some specific examples of personal friends of which I am thinking here; of course I do not believe that all people who are against illegal immigration share that hatred (thank goodness).
I think some people assume that anyone with brown skin is an illegal alien, without first stopping to think that not all "foreigners" are here illegally. So ,really they rail against all foreigners without making the distinction between legal and illegal. At least where I've always lived (TX and AZ), that translates to hispanics. Maybe in the northeast, there is an equally strong backlash against European illegal immigrants, and by extension all Europeans.
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  #34  
Old 01 February 2008, 09:55 PM
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surfcitydogdad surfcitydogdad is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ana Ng View Post
That makes me think of I Married Dora. My illegal immigrant was Irish, do you think people get all upset about that? Why aren't they building a wall at Aer Lingus arrivals at JFK or up in the Bronx?
Sounds familiar; now I have to look up that movie! And, I've always loved the sound of that airline! If they merged with Continental and Eastern, they could be Con-E-Lingus.

Well, not everyone was happy about the Irish, 150+ years ago. White, but Catholic. Or, later, the Italians, or the Eastern European Jews. But non-Europeans can be spotted by different skin tone or other superficial physical traits. I don't know; has la migra ever regularly rounded up undocumented Irish?

I understand a lot of people are hung up about the illegals, but I must admit I've always had an admiration for the people who sneak in from Mexico. You gotta do what you gotta do. I love that movie, Born in East LA, and my wife and I were laughing at it the other day, when Cheech was teaching the Chinese guys how to act like cholos, and leading mass border crossings. Part of my libertarian fantasies have been to be a contrabandista or a coyote, but alas, years ago I promised my clergy that I'd stop doing illegal things. Well, I guess I've been a little lax, when it comes to harboring "illegals," but then, so is my church.

I think some legal immigrants are jealous, too, that they had to go thru all the hassles to get in legally, but if you're close enough to just cross the Canadian or Mexican border, why wouldn't you? It's not as easy for other people to sneak in, nor to return home. I think workers should be able to cross the borders with Canada and Mexico with little hassle, like they do in the EEC.

My immigrant ancestors never got anyone's permission to come to the US, so I'm highly sympathetic to others who just come here. People come here to work, and for freedom, not for welfare benefits. Those who are worried about that, should maybe concentrate on cutting back on the welfare state, and not on workers who are vital to the economy. With aging baby-boomers like me, and our continued reliance on "Social Security," we're going to need their input, as legals or illegals, to keep it solvent. Yes, illegals pay SS taxes, too; they use false numbers to get hired, and taxes are withheld which go to the fund, but not to their accounts (although when they get legalized, they might be able to get credit for their contributions under the false numbers).

I'm obviously highly partial to Mexicans. Salt of the earth. Seems to me we need more of them, and fewer of some of the groups we already have here, such as war-mongers, and people who are hostile to the Bill of Rights.

With age I've grown more and more anarchistic. "Las fronteras existen solo en la mente."
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  #35  
Old 01 February 2008, 10:10 PM
Ryda Wong, EBfCo. Ryda Wong, EBfCo. is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venus View Post
Actually, to be fair to what anti-immigrationists actually believe it's more along the lines of:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door........ unless you're sneaking in the back window instead of coming in the front door.
More like:


Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door........ unless you're a mexican, in which case we stole your land and that makes it OURS and we don't want you benefiting from it anymore. And don't bother complaining about predatory business practices and the way we've totally screwed over your country since then. It was capitalism at work, and capitalism is beyond reproach, so there!
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  #36  
Old 01 February 2008, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo. View Post
unless you're a mexican, in which case we stole your land and that makes it OURS and we don't want you benefiting from it anymore.
Here's the only place in this debate when I hop over to the dark side...just a munchkin of mine, maybe, but I did not steal anyone's land. I don't see why someone should be given the benefit of the doubt over me or be given extra rights because of an accident of birth. I understand that the native peoples who once occupied this land were treated badly, but I did not treat them badly, and I resent being blamed, even only by association, just because my ancestors are the same color as the people who did those things.

Deep breath...okay, I'm done.

ETA: Ok maybe I wasn't done - just adding that Ryda, that little rant of mine was not directed at you.
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  #37  
Old 01 February 2008, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckle Up View Post
Here's the only place in this debate when I hop over to the dark side...just a munchkin of mine, maybe, but I did not steal anyone's land. I don't see why someone should be given the benefit of the doubt over me or be given extra rights because of an accident of birth.
But consider: it is only accident of birth that citizens were born here and would-be immigrants were not. So accident of birth is obviously taken very seriously in this debate.
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  #38  
Old 01 February 2008, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
But consider: it is only accident of birth that citizens were born here and would-be immigrants were not. So accident of birth is obviously taken very seriously in this debate.
I was actually not even thinking about it in terms of this debate. I don't think I have any more or less right to be here than someone born in Mexico. It's just that when it was brought up, I was reminded of ways that it affects me in other areas.
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  #39  
Old 01 February 2008, 10:58 PM
Magdalene Magdalene is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfcitydogdad View Post
I think some legal immigrants are jealous, too, that they had to go thru all the hassles to get in legally, but if you're close enough to just cross the Canadian or Mexican border, why wouldn't you?
You actually just hit on a sore point with a friend of mine, who did come here legally from Canada. He got annoyed with illegal immigrants because he did everything right, he had a good paying job, he paid taxes, he spoke the language, he followed the laws....etc etc etc...

Magdalene
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  #40  
Old 01 February 2008, 11:06 PM
Magdalene Magdalene is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsie View Post
I think some people assume that anyone with brown skin is an illegal alien, without first stopping to think that not all "foreigners" are here illegally. So ,really they rail against all foreigners without making the distinction between legal and illegal. At least where I've always lived (TX and AZ), that translates to hispanics. Maybe in the northeast, there is an equally strong backlash against European illegal immigrants, and by extension all Europeans.
I tend to think what a lot of people think is this:

Mexico: Poor economy, so obvious motive to get across the border to the U.S. Pretty long border, chunks of it not guarded. Easy to drive across, in a few places, walk across. So it's easy to believe that most Mexicans are illegals.

We're not going to think the same of, say, Canada, because Canada's economy seems to be pretty good, so we don't tend to think of Canadians as having any desperate reason to get to the U.S. Nor would we think the same for Europeans, because, well, you can't just walk or drive to America from Europe. You need to arrive by boat or plane, which makes it harder to sneak in, plus likely more expensive to get here.

So going along that line of thinking, I think that plays a large part in why people are more likely to suspect Mexicans of being illegals, instead of, say, that guy from France.

Magdalene
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