Ordering a missile battery

[Ravenhull]

From 88-91 I was a radar tech for the Hawk Missile System (27J10 to be precise) in the US Army. Now, for those of you that were in the military, you know that practically EVERTHING has an assigned part number.

Well, the story went that 'a few years back' a guy found the part number for entire Hawk Missile Battery and submitted an order form (all properly filled out) for it. A bit later, he got the for back as being rejected, but got a laugh that it had gone through about 4 lvls of authorization before somebody caught it.

So, anybody else hear something similar (yes sir, its the part number for a Nimitz-class carrier), and any evidence that this might have happened?

And for you that don't know what would constitute a battery, I'm sure the following would be the minimum:

2 Platoon Command Post trailers full of electronics (the brains of the system)
2 IFF (Friend or Foe) systems
2 Pulse Aquisition Radars
2 Continous Wave Aquisition Radars
2 High Power Illuminator Radars
6 Launchers (3 missile slots each)
2 (or 4) loader tracks
All the assorted power and data cables
probably 4-6 heavy duty generators

All totalling a few million dollars.

As to why there would be a part number for this? I'm sure its simpler than gathering all the assorted part numbers for when an entire unit has to be organized. I'm sure there is a part number for a tank company and such.

Donovan Ravenhull

Not sure if this counts, back in college I worked for a government agency in Norman, and one of my jobs was to find property. The idea was I had to find and 'touch' the item to consider it still in the inventory. One time, on my list was something like:

XXXXXXXXXX tower, radar, metal

It was the tower our radar was on. I climbed up it a bit, and by Jove, found a property tag on one of the support legs. So had I remembered the #, I could order a radar tower from GSA....

[Paveman]

I have heard a few guys jokingly say that they have the part number for our helicopter and that we should order a few more. (we are being phased out )
I also heard a similar story to the OP but it only involved a submarine periscope (an expensive and large assembly, which apparently according to the story was classified equipment during the middle of the cold war). In this story it was actually sent to the office. The government agency (office) was unable to return it because there were no channels to do that. So it ended up in the incinerator at Ft Belvoir. Not sure how you incinerate a large metal object so that no one notices something but maybe the incinerator got hot enough. It makes a good story though.
It seems like there are a lot of these accidently ordered 10,000 tongue depressor stories that people like to tell in order to say "see how messed up our bureaucracy is?"

[Deepfrydegg]

Friend of mine (who was in the Navy) always told a story. I am NOT saying this is true, but it could have been...

Supposedly, one of the mechanics ordered parts for an F-14. Engine maintenance always used various replacement parts, so this sounded reasonable.
Apparently the guy mis-ordered a part # and got shipped a WHOLE F-14.

The order got put through because it came from a carrier, so nobody thought the order was really out of ordinary. Carriers have F-14 assigned to their inventory.
The real problem was a single F-14 completely expends the maintenance budget of the Carrier air group (Wing, is it?) for the year.

[Mycroft]

Not quite to that extent, and both actually got the intended (if unconventional) result.
Both happened at Portsmouth (UK) Historic Dockyard

The Naval Museum had a new assistant curator and his boss explained to him the NATO ordering system and demonstrated by ordering a Harppon gun (surely not naval equipment even in whaling days). The gun arrived complete with harpoon and was displayed for years without visitor comment.

They were restoring the WW1 monitor M33 and the original equipment included a blacksmith's forge (for repairs). They were advised to requisition one and the following day one arrived from dockyard stores, complete with packing crate dated 1919. (Also when the ship was new in 1915 (designed and built in 3 months) it was one of the first oil-fueled surface ships in service, and it sailed before they realized that the cooking stove was coal fired and they had no coal on board)

Hmm.... I've always wanted an F-23...... Although, somehow, I think a single order for a canceled aircraft would draw a bit of attention.....

I've heard of some stuff like this happening - although not quite to the extent of getting a whole aircraft or something of the like - getting a number or two wrong and getting a phased array antenna instead of the portion of the waveguide you needed, getting a magnetron when you were trying to get a capacitor - something funky.

Of course, you try and do stuff like that as little as possible - because it DOES come out of your budget. So, if you're getting magnetrons instead of waveguides (and those things aren't cheap) or capacitors, you won't have any money left to get what you really do need. So, while the Armed Forces are "equal opportunity" - if you're dyslexic, you may find yourself kept away from any sort of order form.

That's just funny, though, a whole dang F-14 ...... I've always wanted one of them, too - very pretty (and horribly expensive and maintenance intensive) aircraft. Could you imagine being there when that happened? "Hey, those Tomcat engines you ordered the other day are in!"

"Really? .... Dang big box, don't you think?"

"Maybe they ran out of smaller crates...."

"Whoa! It's a whole dang Tomcat!"

"AD1, the squadron CO would like to have a word with you...."

Although I somehow doubt a Tomcat would be delivered in a crate like that.... but, there again, I'm not in a squadron (they dissolved all of the reserve squadrons in the midwest - apparently for my benefit) - and don't have any experience with that. I also don't remember what the rate of AD was - I'm fairly certain it was Aviation Propulsion (which would include jet engines) - but I could be wrong.

[Mnotr2]

There are two large anchors in front of the Naval Detachment at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, Ca. The UL is that someone ordered two typewriters (or similar mundane items) and entered the wrong NSN (National Stock Numbers) and the anchors were sent. They couldn't send them back, so now they stand in front of the building.

Not sure if it's true, but along the same lines as this UL.

[UEL]

Originally Posted by Ravenhull

As to why there would be a part number for this? I'm sure its simpler than gathering all the assorted part numbers for when an entire unit has to be organized. I'm sure there is a part number for a tank company and such.

Donovan Ravenhull

In my experience, there would be no part number for the battery as a unit. There would be a part number for the lithium ion battery that would be sitting inside the missile itself. So, when ordering a missile battery, they would be getting the thing that cranks out 24 volts when required, not the complete meal deal.

In my days as a young private, I was working in the library of my unit. I had access to the microfiche with all the NATO Stock Numbers for all sorts of equipment. I tried ordering in things that I thought we could use for recruiting, but nothing ever came in. I ordered in assault boats, radars, helicopter parts and a whole mess of impressive manuals. Not a thing came in.

[Delta-V]

Originally Posted by UEL

In my experience, there would be no part number for the battery as a unit. There would be a part number for the lithium ion battery that would be sitting inside the missile itself. So, when ordering a missile battery, they would be getting the thing that cranks out 24 volts when required, not the complete meal deal.

It would be funnier if they ordered a AAA Battery and got a M163 VADS instead...

[DesertRat]

I discovered out here that 12-packs of Doctor Pepper have an NSN number.


Seriously.


That knowledge would serve me so well if I was staying in...

[UEL]

Originally Posted by DesertRat

I discovered out here that 12-packs of Doctor Pepper have an NSN number.


Seriously.


That knowledge would serve me so well if I was staying in...

What you should do is order a bunch in, issue it out, then the next day have everyone turn it in!

On the other hand: NSN number. Like PIN number, ATM machine etc...

Egads, you are going to have a smooth transition to civy life

[Griffin2020]

Originally Posted by Deepfrydegg

The order got put through because it came from a carrier, so nobody thought the order was really out of ordinary. Carriers have F-14 assigned to their inventory.
The real problem was a single F-14 completely expends the maintenance budget of the Carrier air group (Wing, is it?) for the year.

Actually, the aircraft are the property of the squadron, which is in tunr, property of the Carrier Air Group. For that reason, if the Engine Maitenance group onboard were to accidentally VIDS-MAF (Visual Identification System-Maintenance Action Form) and order a full aircraft, it would not be fulfilled.

[Mycroft]

I have known of a military museum which ordered a gun (artillery, not hand) for display purposes and because they had a military name and a NATO delivery code, when it arrived it was complete with ammunition.

[Malruhn]

Mycroft, that one I have a hard time swallowing. Ammo is seperate from the weapon system, and comes in many different flavors, so the stock numbers for ammo is all different. I don't believe that a screwed up order for an artillery piece would come with ammo as well.

[NovaSS]

Wow ! Rumors in the military. Thats something you dont hear everyday.... okay yes you do.

I would have to say %99.9 of those stories about the supply chain ......well are just stories, sure you may get the wrong bearing or seal if your not carfull but entire peices of ( million dollar) equpiment being orderd ?

If there were mistakes Im sure they were on the other end of the supply chain. Guy orders a seal for a turbine and THEY screw up and ship the turbine. When it arrives the supply corrects it.

[lord_feldon]

They can't be that hard to order, as anything can be powered with a AAA battery.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Malruhn

I don't believe that a screwed up order for an artillery piece would come with ammo as well.

It was old gun (25 pdr if you know british artillery), of WW2 vintage but still then (about 10 years ago) in Territorial (=National Guard) inventories. At one time it had a huge variety of ammunition (including an experimental Base Ejecting Chocolate); but now only HE is available. As a limber was also specified in the order, that's how they got the ammo. The gun itself was later disable, but still capable of firing blank charges and is used frequently for both full drill displays and noon gun firing. The live ammunition was returned, but many drill rounds obtained which were then painted to represent many of the ammunition types available.

[Malruhn]

Crap - I forgot to look at your location. Being a Brit, your ordering processes are different than ours.

I hereby withdraw my objection. I remain skeptical, but won't bitch about it.

[Singing in the Drizzle]

Having worked for the military 20 some years ago, flow charting how information flows through the military. When someone orders something it goes up through several layer of approval. Anyone of the people at those locations can stop the order and parts would never be received. They could also be diverted on the way to delivery by any of these people as well and again you would not receive parts.

I don't know about part numbering in the military. I'm a design engineer in the aircraft business and have work in few other design places before that. Everything has a part number. If a customer orders a new Boeing 777 they will get a 100X0001-???? (the basic airplane plus the customer option). This draw is at the top of a tree that contains all the detail parts, assemblies, installation, process, specification, instructions and anything else that is required to build one complete airplane. It is rumored that the completed document can weigh more than the airplane in paper format. I'm sure there are similar type documents for every thing in the military. I'm pertty sure that the military has a specification document that defines what a Hawk Missile System 27J10-???? (the -???? being some version of the system). I would expect the number system would make it easy to tell a nut from a military unit.

Thinking about that I just got done adding a bunch of military spec nuts for the bin installation I'm working on, basic part number MS21046.

[UEL]

Originally Posted by Malruhn

Crap - I forgot to look at your location. Being a Brit, your ordering processes are different than ours.

I hereby withdraw my objection. I remain skeptical, but won't bitch about it.

Actually, Malruhn, I can see this happening. Being an artilleryman myself, and having worked in the Canadian Artillery Museum, you never know what you are going to get when you acquire age old stock. I managed to look at the old archived records for a field regiment (Canadian, but using that equipment) during the second world war looking for information for a veteran. This occurred in 1995-1996, so my mind might be a bit fuzzy at details.

During the second world war and in the ensuing years, until about 1965?? the 25 pounder formed the backbone of the UK artillery, its former colonies' militaries and many other countries around the globe. When the guns arrived in theatre, the supply system counted the gun, limber, quad (vehicle) and ammunition as a oner. That way, when 13th Field Regiment had a gun destroyed, a fully gun, quad and fully loaded limber were shipped from the depot.

I would imagine that in the few years immediately after the second war, the decommissioning of 10 000 or so guns/limbers and vehicles, things might have gotten overlooked.

In our museum, before I got there, someone noticed that one of the rounds was live. It took an EOD team to come and deal with it. And this was after everything had been designated "clear" by the experts.

So, while Mycroft's story seems particularly bizarre, the fact that he mentions a 25 pounder, which includes limber, which would have been loaded in the depot, has the ring of truth to it.

Mind you, I would not have wanted to be in the museum that day. Old explosive is so unstable.